July 20th, 2012

To Prosecute (Or Not) A Nazi Criminal

Excerpt Via The Contrarian Hungarian 

In the wake of a horrific crime, the Hungarian public has been living in capital punishment fever. Last Saturday Kata Bándy, a 25-year-old police psychologist was murdered while on her way home in the south-Hungarian town of Pécs. The unsuspecting victim was beaten, raped and strangled. An alleged perpetrator is in custody and many think that even the death penalty would be too little for him to pay for this crime.The press has seized on the uproar surrounding the case, so the issue of criminals facing the consequences of their acts is currently on everybody’s mind. Public safety is atrocious in Hungary: with this much anyone will agree. But the point is especially important to emphasize for the extreme right and their paramilitaries who want to restore order on Hungary’s streets – by authoritarian measures if necessary.

The extreme right, however, is not the only political party intent on profiting from appearances of an uncompromisingly tough on crime stance. Among those who have asserted that the Hungarian state should reclaim its (supposedly) rightful prerogative to take the life of its citizens are members of the governing party Fidesz’ own parliamentary caucus. In a statement issued with the Bándy murder in mind, a group of MPs in fact vowed to introduce legislation in the fall to include the death penalty in the country’s criminal code.

Given the wide-spread pre-occupation with just how soft Hungarian law is on crime, the opinions surrounding another criminal investigation currently under way in Hungary are more than puzzling.

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  • JD

    “Public safety is atrocious in Hungary: with this much anyone will agree”

    I most certainly don’t. Budapest is no Mexico City or Johannesburg, not by a long stretch.

    Unless it has dropped beyond all recognition in the last 2 years, Budapest and Hungary in general was one of the safest places I have ever lived.

    Of course my cynical reasoning is because most of the people who, in any other country, may commit these crimes are too drunk to even bother with endangering public safety.

    • Leto. مؤدّب

      It’s still safe.

      Recent remarks: -http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel/Europe/Hungary/Budapest_Fovaros/Budapest-436839/Warnings_or_Dangers-Budapest-TG-C-1.html

  • Ma Jar

    Stupid and unjust statement: Public safety is atrocious in Hungary: with this much anyone will agree I also agree with JD – Budapest is one of the safest cities I have ever lived in. In most American cities, a few exceptions like Columbus, Ohio, one does not go for a stroll at night. Budapest, as with most European and Canadian cities is safe!

  • Sam

    Agree – 7 years i lived in Budapest and only twice i saw an altercation. Not a London-style glassing brawl, just raised voices and pontificating. Sorry but Budapest is one of the least intimidating places Ive visited or lived in. Of course, poorer towns/areas are different… but “atrocious” I still doubt.

  • Pete H.

    Homicide rate per 100,000 in Hungary from 1995 to 2010.
    2.9 2.6 2.8 2.8 2.5 2.0 2.5 2.0 2.3 2.1 1.6 1.7 1.5 1.5 1.4 1.3

    Steady decline for the 16 year period. Can not find any English language data on 2011 or 2012, but I do not expect that there would shave been a sudden increase.

    Rate compares favorably for the rest of the world and for eastern, northern, and southern Europe. A bit higher than average for western Europe.

    US average for 2010 was 4.8.

    Source: -http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/homicide.html

    I have to agree that I feel much safer in Budapest than most large US cities. I do not just spend time in the tourist areas of Budapest.

    For all their faults under MSZP the murder rate had steadily fell. If it really has increased over the last two years, no one can argue that Fidesz is doing a good job dealing with crime.

    • Leto. مؤدّب

      That’s been a really nice application of the well-known Communist rhetoric tool “vörös farok” (‘red tail’). :D :D :D

      (The author told a more or less realistic story/wrote an agreeable article and it ended in something which pleased the Communists.
      -http://hortuscarmeli.blogspot.hu/2006/12/vrs-farok.html )

      BTW, there was 142 homicides in 2011 vs. 133 homicides in 2010. This means a homicide rate of 1.4.

      -http://static1.origos.hu/i/1205/20120517-bunugyi-statisztika.jpg

      • Pete H.

        You are a red-baiting asshole. Someone gives you some statistics and you cry communist.

        You want to argue about the statistics or what they mean, fine.

        Otherwise you are just playing your same old tired stupid game.

        • Leto. مؤدّب

          @postcommie bastard:

          I cried communist because of your last sentence, that is the “red tail”. And I didn’t want to argue about statistics, I simply augmented your post with the latest data your source didn’t have.

  • something fishy

    Pointless grandstanding. Hungary as a member of the Council of Europe has to be a signatory of the ECHR. As a member of the EU, and signatory to the Lisbon Treaty, obeying the accords of the ECHR is also compulsory.

    Protocol 6 of the ECHR bans the death penalty in peacetime and Hungary has ratified it. Domestic politicians can legislate all they like, such supra-national treaty obligations supersede national law. So the only avenue of reintroducing the death penalty in Hungary would be for the country to simultaneously exit both the Council of Europe AND the EU.

    It’s a wonder that Hungarian MPs, most of whom are presumably lawyers, aren’t aware of this.

    • Leto. مؤدّب

      You bet those who try to exploit these sentiments for political gains are fully aware of this. I trust you to come up with a good label for this attitude.

      • Viking

        So ‘leto’ is accusing her beloved Fidesz MPs for trying to make “political gains” by demanding the re-introduction of the death penalty, even if she is very well aware these beloved Fidesz MPs also knows that is just “to exploit these sentiments for political gains”

        But why cannot ‘leto’ call them those names
        ‘leto’ has never been noticed to call other people names…

  • Igazi Magyar

    The point of the Contrarian Hungarian article is that the same people who want to execute Kata Bándy’s murderers are the same people who think that the crimes of Csatáry should be forgiven- or worse, forgotten. Csatáry sounds 10,000 times worse, but Jobbik supporters are making the argument that his murder and repeated brutality against Hungarians is not worth punishing.

    Right now I’m a broken record: Murdering a Hungarian is a crime and it should be punished. Every human life should be treated with respect.

  • Ma Jar

    Thou shall not kill. When you take someones life you must have your life taken. A killer is a killer and some people were born to be killers. Society, when not at war – for war is legalized killing, sanctioned by society, by the state and without much impunity – does not take kindly to murderers though lately I have doubted this based on sentences and second chances for rehabilitation. Yah, also try to rehabilitate the dead person and give the dead one a second chance.

  • spectator

    “When you take someones life you must have your life taken.”

    By whom?
    By another murderer?
    And then his/her life must be taken too, mustn’t it?
    Should it go on till the last one? Otherwise your principle fails – so, what now?

    Or just throw out this crap with the “eye for an eye” and look at it as civilized people, shall we?

    Killing is wrong, whoever committing it of whatever reason. Killing the killer doesn’t make anybody any better – you’ll be the same.

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