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July 24th, 2012

Fidesz, Jobbik MPs propose reinstating capital punishment in wake of high-profile murder of police psychologist

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MPs from the governing Fidesz and opposition Jobbik are in a drive to reinstate the death penalty following a high-profile crime in which a 25-year-old police psychologist was raped and strangled in Pécs, south Hungary.

“Events of recent years and especially of recent days have proved that in order to protect society capital punishment must be reinstituted. The counterarguments that wish to assert that the state has no right to take a human life are unacceptable. [...] if an individual has the right to defend themselves [...] how is it possible that the state does not have the necessary tool that ensures it can impose capital punishment on criminals that lost all their humanity” Smallholder MPs sitting in the Fidesz faction said in a statement.

Radical nationalist opposition party Jobbik also released a statement saying the party would initiate talks with the government on the death penalty, hoping that this time government parties would be more open to the issue that has long been advocated by Jobbik.

Earlier this year the party urged the government to make Hungary the first European country to restore capital punishment.

While the death penalty has a number of advocates within the core group of Fidesz MPs, an unnamed government source talking to Index.hu in June said “the moral standing of those MPs who broach this issue for short-term political gains is highly questionable.”

He added the these statements cannot be regarded as real proposals because Hungary has signed EU’s Charter of Fundamental Rights, which clearly state that “no one shall be condemned to the death penalty, or executed.” [index.hu]

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  • Fidel

    oooh waaay to go hungary…..
    congratulations for building up a wall way higher that the Berlin wall ever was towards the rest of Europe,- now go chill with your ukrainian and chinese buddies…
    Viszszszlat!

  • ThE_WoRd

    Will they now demand the same penalty for Csizsik-Csatáry?

    • ricsi

      Why? Who did he personally murder? Acting on orders (however bad) and committing rape and murder are two different things.

  • Observation

    The politics of a tragedy.

  • Jens

    Hungarians need to get a refund on their brain or return it to the 1 Euro store.
    If the Magyars continue like this, Moody’s will have to invent a new rating for Hungary: Triple Grade-A Dumb-Ass (= Non-Investment Grade except for people who believe 4 is a prime number).

  • olga

    @ Ricsi

    re: “Why? Who did he personally murder? Acting on orders (however bad) and committing rape and murder are two different things.”

    I gather you support I*rael’s move to invoke the Statute of Limitation and old age to protect a Communist war criminal. Who would have thought you are in sync with I*sraeli gov’t?

    About the tragedy of Kata’s murder – personally if someone is convicted of rape and murder, I can sleep at nights if the felon is executed – yes it’s barbaric, yawn.

    What do you think should happen to the perpetrators of that planned execution of the Roma family including a little boy? ( you know the trial where Gyrucsany went to “support the family” ? How nauseating to take political advantage of this tragedy but I wonder if Vona will do the same when this case comes to trial)

    • ricsi

      Idiot Olga,unworthy of a reply as usual.

      • Paul

        Idiot Olga,..eeeh?….coming from the biggest idiot of this site? Confusing. Ricsiiiii…the rattlesnake !

  • Ma Jar

    A killer once killed kills no more. Naturally intent is taken into consideration e.g. self defense. To hell with a second chance to murderers unless you can give a second chance to the murdered. Equal to equal, eh?

    • ricsi

      Excellent!

  • Fidel

    I think i would do you all some good to read Norways Foreign Minister on why Breivik didn’t have a special trial: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/20/opinion/jonas-gahr-store-learning-from-norways-tragedy.html?_r=1
    After all, a country thats been dealing with democracy for quite some time,- as opposed to hungary… where people apparently still spend a lotta time on segregating,- which is the quite opposite of democracy… Jews, gays, gypsies whatever, don’t know what yer fuckin problems are… apart that you’re all living in the past, bye!

  • Punisher

    Raping and killing a defenseless young woman, someono who was valuable to a society, a regular law abiding citizen like my sisters, our our mothers, or your daugthers, should not have any kind of consideration of mercy or forgiveness.This scum needs to die.In a country where this rats go rampant killing and raping, the only solution is the death penalty. No time to waste until the next headlines talking about another useful citizen killed at the hands of these human garbage.

    • ricsi

      Agreed 100%

      • Ma Jar

        This is why many states in America have kept the death penalty and even use it!

        • Curious George

          Why use the US standard? Why not the Chinese standard, and execute all criminals deemed too expensive to maintain? Actually, looking at all the comments here, it’s not too far to expect that many Hungarians would want to make criminals prove their innocence (especially if they were of a certain ethnic group). This idea is not too far fetched.

          I had a classmate who was executed many years ago. He was innocent of the actual crime, but unfortunately for him, he was charged with a specific crime where the law was changed a few years before, and an accused had to prove his innocence, instead of the other way round. Amnesty International took up his case, but unsurprisingly, my country knows how to play ball, and executed him, so you don’t get to hear much about it. We still have this law on our books. Maybe you’re more like us than European.

          • Leto. مؤدّب

            ” an accused had to prove his innocence” “We still have this law on our books.”

            Thanks for shedding light on how it goes in the jungle you’re from. Now at last I understand why you wrote things work better there than in Hungary.

          • Curious George

            “Now at last I understand why…..”
            @Leto – You’re a little slow on the uptake. OV has been using us as his political model for quite some time :)

          • Leto. مؤدّب

            So you’re saying Hungary will work better indeed, like your native jungle now, after OV would succeed in this.

            Hey, perhaps it’s time you consulted a monkey psychatrist. (Though you’d have to travel back to your jungle to do that and I understand you’re afraid of that.)

          • Ma Jar

            To Curious George: The U.S. was cited because of the obvious.

          • Curious George

            @Leto – Welcome to the jungle:-
            1. Media council – got that
            2. Passing “unique” laws extensively w/o debate due to parliment majority – got that
            3. Removing judges & law professors prejudicial to govt view – yup.
            4. Central bank not independently controlled – that too.
            5. Removing international oversights where it existed citing “local conditions” – yes sirree
            6. Consolidating and redistricting constituencies for election advantages – yawn (yes!)

            We’ve had this and more for many years. Looking familiar now in your homeland.
            ps. Afraid to return. LOL! I’m sending it by drum & smoke signals) and pigeon mail right now.

            @Ma Jar – hardly obvious, when the states can’t agree. Moreover, as Pete said, the tendency is to move away from it given the past miscarriages of justice. Btw, I’m in favor of capital punishment despite what happened to my classmate which was an abberation. I don’t think people like Breivik, Manson, Martin Bryant & Pichuskin should be allowed to live at tax-payers expense.

          • Leto. مؤدّب

            @CG:

            Once you wrote things work better in your jungle than in Hungary. Now you have recited the (hellishly boring) postcommie mantra against Fidesz/OV*. That’s pretty much unrelated to my question which is:
            What do you think is missing so that Hungary should work so well as your native jungle?

            * BTW, the National Bank of Hungary operates independently only of the Hungarian government and of Hungary. It’s directly takes instructions from the European Central Bank.

          • Curious George

            Yes, I think things do work better in the jungle. Hellishly boring mantra? Maybe to you, but with a big difference. Unlike all your other nemesis here, I wasn’t very strongly against OV’s political changes, only his economic ones.
            I believe that for developing countries, economic deliverables are far more important, and will be the deciding factor in the short & long run. I gave OV 12-18 months to show what he could deliver on that, and from my past experience in 6 similar countries, I think he’s failed to improve Hungarians’ lot significantly enough, and on the contrary made it weaker on many fronts. Any political changes he’s made are hence immaterial, and will probably be undone once the people realize the economic costs.
            What do I think is missing? A clear plan for improvement without benefiting oneself, and recognizing that Fidesz doesn’t have the luxury of wasting resources for political gain, or dumping capable Hungarians simply because they disagree. For example, the good legal minds who disagreed with our govt (on a couple of things – not everything) were made our ambassadors to France & Germany, where they distinguished themselves for the country, and brought in a lot of investments which benefitted us. Likewise, there are many other things that can be done, but it takes political will, sacrifices & compromise to achieve them.

          • Leto. مؤدّب

            Well, no more words are needed. Now you’ve convinced me things work much better in your jungle indeed since it must be much better if the accused has to prove his innocence instead of our backward method where guilt has to be proven by the prosecutors. :D

          • Curious George

            @Leto – Ah, yes! Deflect and focus on the thing we are worse in, and you think everything else in Hungary is automatically better. But, don’t worry too much, you’ll soon get to where we are. :)
            I guess the rest of the post was lost on you, even though you asked.

          • Leto. مؤدّب

            @CG:

            I cannot recall I ever wrote anything like “everything else in Hungary is automatically better” than in your jungle (or elsewhere)…

            Anyway, let’s just take, for example, item no. 6 your boring and stupid list:

            “6. Consolidating and redistricting constituencies for election advantages”

            Well, it’s dead sure you took this postcommie false allegation from that “study” by Bajnai’s foundation which was so much pushed in the postcommie press.
            The basic premises of that propaganda writing were refuted quickly, so let’s not dwell on those. It suffices to say that a few months after these noisy accusations of gerrymandering MSZP politicians already opined MSZP could win a 2/3 majority in 2014. :D :D

            -http://hvg.hu/itthon/20120606_mszp_molnar_ketharmad

          • Curious George

            @Slow Leto – I didn’t read what Bajnai’s foundation wrote. I can observe for myself. OV’s plan to reduce the number of representatives in Parliament is a kind of “consolidating”? Maybe I should have helped you understand that it was 2 separate points, consolidating people & redistricting boundaries for election gains. Anyway, we still did that many years ago (yawn).

  • Anonymous

    The global trend has been to move away from the death penalty.

    -http://www.amnestyusa.org/sites/default/files/images/IntlTrends.jpg

    The Innocence Project (-http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/Towards_a_Repeal_of_the_Death_Penalty.php) in the US has exposed dozens of cases of people falsely executed for crimes they ddid not commit. Since the death penalty is not reversible, it should either be applied only under the most stringent of conditions or not at all.

    The US trend has also been to move away from the death penalty.

    Not only are the number of death sentences handed down decreasing across the US. (This is in part because even states that have it the books have not carried out executions in many years.)

    -http://www.amnestyusa.org/sites/default/files/images/DeathSentences19772011.jpg

    In addition more and more states are abolishing it.

    -http://www.hrw.org/news/2012/04/12/us-momentum-against-death-penalty

    So why would Hungary want to move in the opposite direction?

    • Pete H.

      I should add to my above comment that most US citizens now prefer alternative sentences for capital offenders.

      -http://www.amnestyusa.org/sites/default/files/images/preferredpunishment.gif

  • olga

    @ Ricsi

    re: \Idiot Olga,unworthy of a reply as usual.\

    Your calling me an idiot was a really dumb move because by avoiding a proper answer, you clearly confirmed your racist double standards for victims of war crimes as well as for the recent murder victims. In your warped sick mind, the value of human life is contingent on race, so you should have had the guts to say so.

    You ought to have ignored my questions instead of a revealing answer to such \unworthy questions\ DUH

    • walktheline

      You are an idiot Olga,

    • ricsi

      YOU are not worthy of answer,not the questions raised.Stop moving the goal posts to suit your own warped agenda.

  • olga

    @ Ricsi

    The people who in your estimation are “worthy” of the questions will never ask so you are pretty safe.

    I only wish a Hungarian journalist would ask Vona the same questions.

    re: “Stop moving the goal posts to suit your own warped agenda.” – coming from you,, that’s hilarious

    Like my Grandma said: ” Ha a hulyeseg fajna, ez az ember orditana” – ask someone who speaks Hungarian to translate for you.

    • ricsi

      Okay,whatever,now go away with your superior ‘Canadian education’ and learn about how the real world effects us day by day.

  • olga

    @ Ricsi

    I have no idea what your comment about “Superior Canadian education” means. Superior to ..? Never mind, I really don’t want to know.

    Back to Kata Bandy’s horrific murder – I decided to read some Hungarian articles – get someone else to translate verbatim but my translation will be a quick summary and to the best of my knowledge it’s accurate:

    Her Mom Edit Bandy is asking people not to use her daughter’s name nor the family’s personal tragedy to further their own political agenda to incite hatred and advocate for the reinstatement for capital punishment.

    I have no doubt that Vona and the JOBBIK crowd will disrespect her wishes and use Kata to further their despicable agenda but it would be rather hard for you to advise her Mom, like you advised me to “live in the real world” – which in her case will be sheer hell on earth even if she lives to be 110

    Reference : From Hir24:
    Bándy Edit, Kata édesanyja a közösségi portálon korábban azt üzente: „A család kérését is tolmácsolom, amikor arra kérem a civil és a politikai szervezeteket, hogy se a lányunk nevét, se a személyes tragédiáját ne használják fel uszítás, gyűlölködés vagy a halálbüntetés visszaállításának ürügyéül.”

  • Ma Jar

    Since when did capital punishment become a sin? A killer’s deed proven without a doubt – but must be without a doubt (self defense excluded), must pay with life for the life taken. Why can’t this be implemented in today’s disciplined society (wink, wink)? A dog kills a chicken, the dog is shot. Why should a killer, a human, a thinking being, deserve more than a dog? Oh, by the way, dogs don’t start world wars but we thinkers do! So,the killer is sentenced to serve “x” years for killing and is housed, fed, clothed, given medical and dental care, entertained, schooled, with women provided in some countries (for healthy male inmates). If a parole provision is allowed the killer can ask and perhaps even be paroled. The killer has a voice and given a second chance enters the society which had paid for his very costly stay. The rehabilitated murderer may or may not reoffend and society takes a chance with this person! As you can see, many people think we give way too much to a murderer After all the murdered person, if he/she could have a voice, would ask for only one thing – their life back.

    • justasking

      @Ma,

      ‘Since when did capital punishment become a sin?’

      ….’Thou shalt not kill’
      ————

      ‘A dog kills a chicken, the dog is shot’

      Before shooting the dog, one must ask…why did the dog KILL the chicken?
      ———

      • procastinator

        And likewise before shooting a murderer one could ask ,, why did the human x , kill human y ?

        • Ma Jar

          Do not kill.

        • justasking

          @procastinator,

          ‘And likewise before shooting a murderer one could ask ,, why did the human x , kill human y ‘

          No, my point was, a dog cannot reason like us humans can and do. Dogs don’t experience jealousy, guilt, resentment, anger,. They don’t process right from wrong…they go simply by instinct and live in the moment. Hunger, threatened, protective etc.
          —–

          @Ma,

          ‘To Justasking: your comments do not merit a response’

          Well shit, don’t ask the question (nor give a silly example) if you don’t want to hear the answer.

          • Ma Jar

            To Justasking: Do you eat food with that garbage mouth? Apparently you do! Too bad your mother didn’t use a bar of soap to wash your mouth.

          • justasking

            @Ma,

            ‘Do you eat food with that garbage mouth?’

            Yes, yes I do…I also talk and sing with it as well.

            ——–

            ‘Too bad your mother didn’t use a bar of soap to wash your mouth’

            Yeah, what a pity, to have been born to such a monster…God rest her soul.

      • Ma Jar

        To Justasking: your comments do not merit a response.

  • olga

    @ procrastinator

    re: “And likewise before shooting a murderer one could ask ,, why did the human x , kill human y ? ” – did you want a list of reasons? One would be that the human species is disgusting and I am personally looking to join a different one :) )

    Animals kill out of fear and instinct so I am not quite sure why dogs and chickens were brought into the equation.
    Not that I’d ever watch it but there are lots of travel videos around showing the pecking order about animals in Africa tearing each other apart but we are supposed to be above that.

    When it comes right down to it, I don’t believe in capital punishment but I have no doubt that I would not be as classy as Kata’s Mother was if the victim was my daughter – I have no doubt I’d want the killer dead which and before someone else points that out, I know that
    makes me a hypocrite

    From my perspective, the most valid arguments for pro-capital punishment are:

    1. the perpetrator will not have a chance to kill again
    2. there is always a chance that somehow the convicted killer will get parole. A life sentence should mean just that and it sure doesn’t mean that in Canada and even if it does in Hungary, there is no guarantee what the laws will be 20 years down the road

    I don’t know any Western country that brought back the death penalty after it was abolished so I think both Canadian and Hungarian killers are pretty safe from being executed

    • Ma Jar

      “Tsk, Tsk” The killer dog and the retribution was simply an example.

    • justasking

      @Olga,

      Sorry there, didn’t read your response before I posted mine.

  • olga

    @ Ma Jar

    I am as shocked at the word “shit” as you are, so on behalf of all Canadian women with Magyar background, I wish to apologize to you for JA’s outrageous posting. ( I washed out mouth with soap twice for typing the word “shit”)

    Please pray with me that my friendship with her will result in her becoming the same classy woman that I am and always have been.

    • justasking

      @Olga,

      I hang my head in shame…I don’t know what came over me!? Maybe all that American air?

      I simply pray that our friendship can and will survive this grave miss-step of mine.

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