August 8th, 2012

Investigators say Hungary war crime suspect Csatáry not linked to Kamyanets-Podilsky deportation

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The Budapest Investigating Prosecution Office said on Monday that allegations by Nazi hunter Efraim Zuroff according to which Hungarian war crime suspect Laszlo Csatary was linked to the Kamyanets-Podilsky deportations of 1941 were groundless.

Public radio Kossuth reported that according to an expert investigating the case Csatary was not in Kassa (now Kosice, Slovakia) in 1941 and therefore he did not have the opportunity to be involved in the deportations to western Ukraine’s Kamyanets-Podilsky. However, the investigation will continue in connection with his involvement in the 1944 deportations.

Zuroff, the director of Jerusalem-based Simon Wiesenthal Centre, had submitted reports against Csatary for the deportations in 1941 and 1944.

Last week, the Budapest Investigating Prosecution Office interviewed 97-year-old Csatary as a suspect in war crimes in connection with the events in Kassa in 1944. He denied allegations.

Spokeswoman of the Budapest Public Prosecutor Bettina Bagoly told the radio that information gathered so far had revealed that Csatary could not be associated with the deportations in 1941.

According to Jerusalem’s Wiesenthal Centre, Csatary, as police commander of the local ghetto in Kassa, had a key role in the deportation of over 15,000 Jews to the Auschwitz death camp in spring 1944, and around 300 Jews to a camp in Kamyanets-Podilsky.

At the end of the war, Csatary fled Hungary and settled in Canada, where he was granted Canadian citizenship in 1955. He was sentenced to death in absentia by the Czechoslovak authorities in 1948. In October 1997, Csatary left Canada to avoid procedures of expulsion after it turned out that his application for citizenship had contained false data.

Hungarian authorities put Csatary under house arrest in mid-July.

MTI (Magyar Távirati Iroda) is the Hungarian news agency.
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  • Andy

    Of course, he did not :) :):) I am getting sick of that. Hungary MUST be really punished by EU for Csatary. It is really shame of Europe. Who can read Slovak (I guess nobody in Hungary :) :):):)) can judgment of sentence of death for nazi Csatari from 1948 here http://www.scribd.com/doc/102339097/Csatary#

    • …justasking

      @Andy,

      ‘Hungary MUST be really punished by EU for Csatary’

      So, you’re of the opinion, that people should be tried by the media and not in court? Guilty, until proven innocent and all that?

  • ricsi

    As usual the case is beginning to collapse due to false allegations and lies from the chosen ones.

  • Aloof

    He admitted to Canadian authorities that he was a participant in the deportations so who are you kidding? He was sentenced to death by the Czechs. Hungary is just protecting one of its own. This despicable sadistic little scumbag’s judgement day will come soon enough.

    • ricsi

      NO EVIDENCE means just that,despite all the chosen ones attacks,now all he needs to do is cover his tracks as a policeman in 1944 and he is home and clear. Good luck to an old patriot who did what was NECESSARY.

      • Viking

        ricsi says:
        August 8, 2012 at 3:33 pm

        an old patriot who did what was NECESSARY
        —

        Could you be more specific when it comes to the point:
        * “what was NECESSARY”?

        Or you are too afraid of that, like ‘magyar’ to speak up?

        • Magyar

          “Necessary”

          Adjective: Required to be done, achieved, or present; essential.

          Noun: The basic requirements of life, such as food and warmth.

          I hope that clears it up for you.

          • Paul

            I hope that clears it up for you.

            Not for me. Explain please?

          • Magyar

            He did what he had to do.
            Orders are orders, they came right from the top, the Szent Korona herself.

            Maybe in the Netherlands, police officers can pick and chose what orders they obey and what they don’t, but not in the Royal Hungarian Police.

            Anyway, Csatáry did nothing wrong, he didn’t kill anyone.
            For all he knew he was moving them to an actual holliday camp, or just relocating them to a safer place.

          • Paul

            BREAKING NEWS!

            “Anyway, Csatáry did nothing wrong, he didn’t kill anyone.
            For all he knew he was moving them to an actual holliday camp, or just relocating them to a safer place.”

          • Magyar

            ???

          • Paul

            Well…it is big news, isn’t it. Nobody else except you thought about this.

          • Magyar

            Do you have any proof that Csatáry knew what was going happen to them?

            Do you think he knew about the gas chambers? Heck even the Nazis only found out about the gas chambers after the war, so how was Csatáry supposed to know?

            Csatáry was just a simple police officer, just leave him alone, give him a nice pension and be done with it.

          • Paul

            @ Magyar

            “Do you think he knew about the gas chambers? ” …already happy that a Jobbik supporter confirms there were gas chambers.
            Thx

          • Magyar

            Read my whole post.
            but I will help you out
            ” Heck even the Nazis only found out about the gas chambers after the war”

          • Paul

            ” Heck even the Nazis only found out about the gas chambers after the war”….who did it than?

          • Viking

            Magyar says:
            August 8, 2012 at 4:55 pm

            He did what he had to do.
            Orders are orders, they came right from the top, the Szent Korona herself.

            Maybe in the Netherlands, police officers can pick and chose what orders they obey and what they don’t, but not in the Royal Hungarian Police
            —

            The May 1944 incident happened *after* Nazi-Germany illegally had occupied Hungary, but still keeping ‘magyar’s’ (and ‘leto’s') idol, Admiral Horthy at the helm

            We have all our own personal responsibility in these situations and that a Police Commander like Csatáry did not know what would happen with the people he deported is a rather childish argument
            Of course Csatáry knew
            Of course Csatáry approved of it
            Of course ‘magyar’ approved of it
            Of course ‘ricsi’ approved of it
            They are just all to coward to state it out loud, only ion their internal meetings and on st*rmfr*nt, masturbating away how many J*ws/Roma/Liberals they would like to kill

        • Paul

          “Good luck to an old patriot who did what was NECESSARY.”
          Yep…why?

          • ricsi

            Sorry Paul,under ‘freedom of speech’rules I can not further explain my reasoning of necessity,nor can I defend ‘Magyar’ over Auschwitz ‘gas’ chambers-Freedom Paul,freedom,to debate,freedom to present clear evidence,freedom to just disagree when talking about the ‘chosen ones’-BUT NOT ANYMORE,YOU cowardly hypocrites choose to force legislation but remember this-TRUTH DOES NOT NEED TO HIDE BEHIND LEGISLATION-truth ALWAYS comes out.FREEDOM Paul,remember that word because you have caused it to disappear from our vocabulary.(TEMPORARILY :)

          • Viking

            ricsi says:
            August 8, 2012 at 6:06 pm

            under ‘freedom of speech’rules I can not further explain my reasoning of necessity
            —

            Coward!

            What is Freedom worth, if you do not dare to fight for it?

          • Paul

            FREEDOM Paul,remember that word because you have caused it to disappear from our vocabulary. ………..Me? Wow!
            Didn’t know.

          • …justasking

            @Viking,

            ‘What is Freedom worth, if you do not dare to fight for it?’

            Wow, Viki! That…was…like…sooo…beautiful!!!

            Can I borrow it from you? I want to have it tattooed on my ass.

          • Viking

            …justasking says:
            August 9, 2012 at 9:40 am

            That…was…like…sooo…beautiful!!!
            Can I borrow it from you?
            —

            Only if you promise to show me that tattoo

          • …justasking

            @Viking,

            ‘Only if you promise to show me that tattoo’

            :D :D

      • Liz Aucoin

        You are a sick individual! Those who admire people like this will soon find themselves persecuted just like him!

        • Magyar

          Do you have any distant ancestors who were in “Lenin’s boys”, eh communist kurva?

          • …justasking

            @Magyar,

            Really? Are you kidding me?

            You have so little self-control, you had to drop the ‘k’ bomb?

    • …justasking

      @Allof,

      ‘He admitted to Canadian authorities that he was a participant in the deportations’

      I would want to see the link where he just that…please provide.

      • …justasking

        oopps…should read ‘where he says just that…

      • ricsi

        You are more intelligent than that Zsuzsa,of course we fight for REAL freedom ,freedom of speech etc… but such neo-liberal shits as viking and paul openly call for bans and support the ‘hate laws’ and yet these hypocrites then challenge us to fight for freedom-knobheads and hypocrites.
        Like I said yesterday Truth does not need to hide behind laws,only cowards and liers create laws to decieve.
        As for his part in deportations,so what? He was a police chief and he carried out the necessary work-I have no problem with a man doing his duty-but DID HE KILL ? NO
        He did what was and is necessary.

        • …justasking

          @ricsi,

          Look, as far as I’m concerned, Csatary is innocent until proven guilty. They very nature of what he’s being accused of, deserves, that any and all ‘evidence’, ‘testimonies’ etc, be gone through with a fine tooth comb and not simply rushed through because of ‘public’ pressure or the accused age.

          A persons reputation and life, are at stake here. Now, that may not mean much to some around here; but, imagine being accused of molesting a child or having raped a woman…and you didn’t.

          Posters here on poli.hu, who are willing to deny this man due process, have already found him guilty via the media; are individuals who scare me. They are motivated by passion, not necessarily by facts, and begin to resemble a pack of wolves….dangerous.

          Now, I agree with you about deliberately creating laws, to deny peoples right to question, investigate and challenge any and all events in history etc.
          ———

          ‘As for his part in deportations,so what? He was a police chief and he carried out the necessary work-I have no problem with a man doing his duty-but DID HE KILL ? NO’

          What you seem to forget here ricsi, was that the man WAS the Chief of Police. He swore an oath, to serve, protect, and uphold the law.

          If he assisted, in the deportation of people, knowing, even suspecting, the probability of them being tortured or murdered was in store…makes him an accessory.
          —–

          ‘He did what was and is necessary’

          Murder and torture, are never ‘necessary’.

        • Viking

          ricsi says:
          August 9, 2012 at 1:43 pm

          DID HE KILL ? NO
          —

          That logic can be applied on Mr A Hilter himself, proving that He was innocent
          But who would believe it?
          Except ‘ricsi’ and ‘magyar’ of course…

          War crimes tend to be so much more than just killing off people with their own bare hands, or with a knife/riffle/etc
          It is not really the act of killing people, it is the act of enabling others to do just that
          Rounding up people and sending them away on inhumane transports, way too much crowded than when cattle is transported (then cattle are expensive and you want to keep it alive), shows an illegal disrespect for human life. Just the transport as such made it clear to everyone that these people were going to die

          Personally I think the Swedish Police Officers who were involved in the illegal rendition of two Egyptian men from Sweden to CIA should go to court to have the case proven if they broke the law or not, just by following orders
          -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Ahmed_Agiza_and_Muhammad_al-Zery

          This case is similar then it was clear that Swedish standards on treatment of detainees was not kept while still on Swedish ground and hence Swedish jurisdiction

          Sweden has later compensated the victims of this illegal treatment, but the Police Officers involved has never been charged, which they definitely would have been if they had witnessed the same treatment when handing over a detainee to a Swedish Prison and not either stopped it or reported it

      • Aloof

        Find it yourself.

        • …justasking

          @Aloof,

          ‘Find it yourself’

          Yeah, I didn’t think you’d seen it either.

          • Aloof

            Of course I did, in seconds. If you can’t find it then you’re just incompetent. I also know what the sadistitic lying scumbag’s Canadian name was. Do you?

          • …justasking

            @Aloof,

            ‘I also know what the sadistitic lying scumbag’s Canadian name was. Do you?

            Pierre Trudeau?

  • olga

    @ Aloof

    I agree with everything you say and you can bet that when the Canadian government revoked this man’s citizenship, there was was uncontroverted evidence of his guilt.

    I always admired I*srael for its relentless pursuit of war criminals but I was absolutely shocked when they refused to hand over a communist war criminal and protected their own while giving feeble excuses about age and health. It gives a horrible message to the world especially the victims’ families.

    I know that two wrongs do not make a right but in that case it’s not applicable because the whole justice system is about precedent and equal treatment, Lady Justice being blindfolded etc. but there was a conspicuous absence of that blindfold which is beyond disgusting

    I think you are back in the US – our TV stations seem to be covering only 3 news items these days – the Olympics, the gun control debate in the USA following the Sikh temple shooting and the weather.

    • …justasking

      @olga,

      ‘ Canadian government revoked this man’s citizenship, there was was uncontroverted evidence of his guilt’

      I’m sorry…I thought I read, that his Canadian Citizenship was revoked, because it contained ‘false data’…how does that get interpreted as ‘guilty’?

      • Viking

        Obviously the Canadian authorities said a bit more:
        -
        In a summary of its case against Csizsik-Csatary the Canadian Government stated: “For at least two transports, he was present for the embarkation, checking the Jews’ names on a list.”
        -
        -http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article4429862.ece

        That the Canadian Authorities choose the easy way out and just threw him out of the country, an immigrant who had been an official from a country which had been at war with Canada, tells a lot, does it not?

  • Aloof

    Hi Olga! Yeah it’s nice to be home again but I’ll visit Hungary often to visit family and friends. On a happier note how about Hungary’s awesome performance in the Olympics! Would love to see that level of effort and achievement applied by their politicians. These are the Hungarians that all Hungarians should be proud of and aspire to be. Absolutely fantastic.

  • olga

    @ Aloof

    Thanks for the kind words about my 11 medals at the Olympics – it is downright laughable but friends call and or email me with Congratulations thus I joined the delusional crowd on this website and convinced myself that it’s only right that my \awesome\ and \fantastic\ performance should be celebrated.

    My husband wanted to know if I was cheering more for Canada or Hungary – I didn’t even have to think before I said Hungary.

    • ricsi

      Olga@Do not cheer for this little country,you have done nothing but attack and spread hatred.Cheer for liberal loving,brain washed Canada-you belong there.

  • ricsi

    Viking@Believe me,we are fighting,but suffering unecessary libel actions by haters of ‘freedom of speech’ is not the way forward,we play the game your way now-

    • Viking

      So why not take a ‘necessary libel action’?

      Can you mention one in Hungary in modern times?

  • Liz Aucoin

    Sounds more like it is collapsing because Hungary is protecting him!

  • Liz Aucoin

    Its obvious that Ricsi doesn’t truly understand democratic society. Its hillarious how you use the “freedom of speech” and freedom arguments when it suits you. There is nowhere in democratic constitutions the freedom to promote hate. So don’t use democracy to do and say whatever the hell you want but when it comes to others freedoms, then it doesn’t apply? You will get yours one day, when freedom truly comes to Hungary and all of you who think it is your right to hate openly and mistreat those who are different than you. You will get to see what happens to those people! When you are sitting in jail, praying for your life because you committed hate crimes and supported those who commit hate crimes. Hoping that the person in the next cell is not a Roma or Jew! Maybe then you will get to see!

  • olga

    @ Ricsi

    This little country is my birthplace and regardless of how old I was when my parents brought me to Canada, I am still an immigrant and I never legally lost nor forfeited my Hungarian citizenship the way your beloved leader lost his Grandfather’s name.

    Now let’s see, what exactly is your status in Magyarorszag because me thinks you are an immigrant who doesn’t speak his adopted country’s language as well as I speak Hungarian and English.

    • Magyar

      ” the way your beloved leader lost his Grandfather’s name.”
      Sorry Olga but are you really that stupid? Do you think Vona had much choice about his last name when his Grandmother married a Serb who adopted Vona’s father as his son?

      I know many Slovak Hungarians who had to adopt a Slovak name in order to stay.
      My Great Grandfather was to be expelled from Felvidék, and lose all his land and possessions, unless he adopted a Slovak name.
      Later our family changed our name to our original name.
      Does that make me less Hungarian?
      Think before you speak.

  • olga

    @ Magyar

    Stupid is fine, I don’t have self-esteem issues :) )

    I worked in the “adoption business” but I havenever seen a case where a child adoptee had input about his or her adoption or loss of birth name. I am not going to give you a lecture about adoptees and how some feel about a loss of identity and how they legally change their names when they find out their birth names but they have to go through the same legal procedures that I would have to should I choose a name from the phone book.

    The fact that the adopted father never had a problem with the Zavrivec name yet the grand-son just happened to be bothered by it when it was advantageous to have a Magyar name has absolutely no correlation to your family’s reason for changing names. BTW, I don’t think you are stupid, simply delusional and build your premises to support your desired conclusions.

    Back to Csatary – I gather you support I*srael’s unforgivable move to protect its own Communist war criminal since the poor old man simply followed orders. I only wish I believed in an after life so I could believe that both these people along with every war criminal past future and present would rot in hell until eternity.

    • Magyar

      His father grew up under communism, nationalism was banned, thus I doubt his father had much nationalist feelings.
      But off course, you will probably believe that Vona is actually just an agent from Slovakia to destroy Hungary or some kind of crap :D
      Liberals these days.

      But when did I expect rational thought from you, Olga?

      Its just more proof that you are not Hungarian, you are simply a Canadian with Hungarian roots, but not a Hungarian.

  • olga

    @ Maygar

    re: “But off course, you will probably believe that Vona is actually just an agent from Slovakia to destroy Hungary or some kind of crap ” – No, you have me confused with people like yourself for believing unfounded allegations because I don’t like someone.

    As a continuation on Maria Theresa, she hated J*ews as well as Protestants but 50% is good enough, isn’t it? In case you don’t approve of her gypsy integration initiatives, you can always spit on her coffin which is only a few hours away.

    About my being Magyar: “Hungarian roots” apply to people who were born outside the country unless of course JOBBIK changed the definition and it now reads ” If you do not support our agenda, you are not a Magyar regardless of your birthplace, however if you do there will be no questions asked”

    It appears that 85 +% of the Hungarian electorate is also labouring under the false impression like me that they are Hungarian and always will be no matter where they end up. You were worried about the declining birthrate and yet you are reducing our numbers faster than the Great Plague during Maria Theresa’s reign which of course is not surprise, nor will you see my “stupidity?

    If you are getting pissed off with my postings addressed to you, you can always call me the K word and you will never be bothered by my annoying responses. There are some things you can control but you cannot decide who is and who is not Hungarian nor can you unring bells. Hat igy van. (How awful that people were forced to change their Hungarian names to Slovak names, I did not know that)

    • Magyar

      “How awful that people were forced to change their Hungarian names to Slovak names, I did not know that.”
      I bet theres a lot of things you don’t know.

      Start reading here:
      -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Trianon
      -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovakization
      -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bene%C5%A1_decrees
      -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_labor_of_Hungarians_in_the_Soviet_Union
      -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_purges_in_Serbia_in_1944%E2%80%931945#Hungarians
      -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavril_Olteanu

      That should be enough for now, if you want more, just ask.

    • Géza

      ofcourse you are magyar! You where born out of magyar parents and where even born here, although being born in Hungary doesn’t make someone a magyar, magyar parents do, like yours.

      BUT dear Olga you are brainwashed by (in this case canadian) the western liberal political correct ideology. Canada is one of the most politcal correct countries in the world today, so growing up there leaves its marks.

      • Magyar

        I agree with Géza.
        There is a Magyar hiding within Olga deep down somewhere, but it is covered in a thick sludge of Canadian liberal garbage.

      • Neighbour

        Well,Sandor Petoffi was born to his Slovak parents as Alexander Petrovic. Gyorgyi Szondi was born to his Slovak parents as Juraj Sucha, Lajos Kossuth was born to his Slovak father and German mother, he attended a Slovak basic school. Ferenc Liszt came from a Slovak – German family (his grand father name was List what means Leaf in Slovak language). Till his death he was not able to speak Magyar Language. and so on and so on…

        • Magyar

          Kossuth considered himself an ethnic Hungarian (Magyar) and stated that there was no Slovak nationality (also: “nation,” “ethnic nation,” “ethnicity”) in the Kingdom of Hungary.

          He wrote abouth himself that “I was born Hungarian and brought up as a Hungarian.”

          Pavol Országh Hviezdoslav, famous “Slovak” poet.
          “Born as Pavel Országh in Vyšný Kubín (Felsőkubin), Kingdom of Hungary, Austrian Empire, Országh became a Hungarian patriot and wrote his poems only in Hungarian until the 1860s.”

          “Slovakia” is a fake nation, with stolen history, stolen symbols.
          Your languages are various stolen Slavic languages patched together in a hurry.
          There is no such thing as “Slovak”, or “Slovakia”.
          Only in this stupid world run by the NWO, fake nations like Kosovo, FYROM, Slovakia exist, to conquer and divide.

  • Külföldi Anonymous Greek

    @magyar : well roared, lion!

    @Olga – you are clearly NOT a Turulless Tiszta Magyar and a panjandrum like the one and only “MAGYAR” .
    Besides you are not a Jobbik supporter…

  • olga

    @ Anonymous Greek

    I know you did not mean to do it it but please do NOT insult Hungarians because of JOBBIK – they are a minority

    BTW, did you grow up in Hungary? I only found out 10 years ago about all the Greek kids who were sent to Hungary for safety during your civil war and never left; sounds so strange to have someone with a 25 letter Greek name speak fluent Hungarian.

    Do you know if said Greeks are embraced by the JOBBIK crowd as long as they share their racist ideas without any questions of “ancestry” because their skin and religion/race are “acceptable”? Hard to know the rules in JOBBIKland so I do hope Magyar doesn’t call me the K word because when in doubt about the rules, I will have no one to consult :) )

  • Külföldi Anonymous Greek

    Olga,

    I’m sure your’e more confident in yourself than you tell/show.

    The Hungarian nation has my respect ( likewise the Romanian one ). However self-justifying morons like “M” here do get my negative attention regardless their nationality. I’m just waiting for the other moron – “Get Real” to come along.

    I never lived in Hungary, but I do know that – during the civil war in the late ’40-ies early ’50-ies children of communist Greeks were send to communist countries in refuge.

    • Magyar

      I take it you are not a supported of Golden Dawn?

      • Külföldi Anonymous Greek

        Krissi Avgi – total morons.

        • Magyar

          They are the only chance lazy ass Greeks have.

          I don’t support Krissi Avgi either, in your region I support Milliyetçi Hareket Partisi though ;)

          • Paul

            @ Magyar
            I support Milliyetçi Hareket Partisi…..they are responsible for death threats against Turkish gays in my country….surely you do not support that, do you?

          • Magyar

            I will let you figure that one out, it shouldn’t be too hard.

          • Paul

            Come on…yes or no?…Be honest…at least I consider you to be honest.

          • Paul

            @ Magyar

            No reply I guess…..doesn’t look good on you though.

          • Magyar

            Didn’t see your comment.

            Ok Paul, you want me to be honest? I will be honest.
            Hungary and Turkey need less c0ck suckers and more real men.

            You can keep them in Netherlands if you want, since your society is already so degenerate that a few more Turkish gays.

            It is a sin against Christianity, sin against Islam, since against the Szent Korona, and our lands won’t stand for such imperfection on them.

            Heck, I have visited the west before, and I could hardly tell the difference between a liberal straight man, and a gay man.

            But my all means, we should send all of our gays to the Netherlands if you love them so much.

          • Viking

            Magyar says:
            August 9, 2012 at 6:59 pm

            It is a sin against Christianity, sin against Islam, since against the Szent Korona
            —

            Written by the guy who thinks the Szent Korona is a vagina…

          • Magyar

            You piece of shit, how dare you insult the Szent Korona like that?
            And I NEVER said that, moron.

            “As is the case with all European Christian crowns, it symbolizes a halo and thus signifies that the wearer rules by Divine Right. According to popular tradition, St Stephen I held up the crown during the coronation (in the year 1000) to offer it to the “Nagyboldogasszony” (the Virgin Mary) to seal a divine contract between her and the divine crown. After this, the “Nagyboldogasszony” was depicted not only as patrona (patron saint) for the Kingdom of Hungary but also as regina (i.e. “queen”). This contract was supposed to empower the crown with divine force to help the future kings of Hungary and did help reinforce the political system based on the so-called “Doctrine of the Holy Crown” (Hungarian: Szentkorona-tan). Péter Révay, a Crown Guard, expounded this doctrine in his works Commentarius De Sacra Regni Hungariae Corona (Explanation of the Holy Crown of the Kingdom of Hungary, published in Augsburg, 1613) and De monarchia et Sacra Corona Regni Hungariae (About the Monarchy and the Holy Crown of Hungary, Frankfurt, 1659). At the core of this doctrine was the notion that the crown itself had personhood and as a legal entity is identical to the state of Hungary. It is superior to the ruling monarch, who rules “in the name of the crown”.”

            -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Crown_of_Hungary#Holiness_doctrine

            -http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Szent_Korona-tan

          • Viking

            Magyar says:
            August 9, 2012 at 7:17 pm

            And I NEVER said that, moron
            —

            No, István Kiraly did (obviously)
            You only thinks it, which is what I wrote

          • Magyar

            You are a troll, you are not here to discuss, only to lie and annoy me.

            I have tried normal conversation with you, but it is impossible.
            I never said that the “Szent Korona is a vagina”.
            I never implied it.
            I never said anything that could make someone think I said it.

          • Viking

            Magyar says:
            August 9, 2012 at 7:37 pm

            I never said anything that could make someone think I said it
            —

            Well, I proved you wrong there, didn’t I?

            Anyway what is wrong with a vagina?
            Half the population has one and we all passed through it, so it must be the most important thing for humanity
            Nothing to be embarrassed about

            And in a poetic description you could say that the Birthplace, the Vagina, of Magyarorszag is represented by this Crown
            I thought you did just exactly this

  • Külföldi Anonymous Greek

    Olga:

    “…because their skin and religion/race are “acceptable”?”

    Funny – European means inhabitant of the land West from the Evros ( also called Maritza by the Bulgarians)a river marking nowadays the border between Ellas and Turkey. Initially it had nothing to do with the skin color or religion. As for race – since 45K years there’s just one “Homo” – Homo Sapiens ( even if it proved to be less “Sapiens” many times.

    • Viking

      There is another twist to this with skin-colour also
      As I understand the Old Greeks regarded ‘white-skin’ people with suspicion, they could not really be trusted

      The ‘white-skin’ people lived up north, so we look at the Carpathian Basin basically….

      But that was before the Magyars arrived of course

  • Külföldi Anonymous Greek

    You are correct. The blond and light skinned people were called Hyperboreans and were supposed to live near the Istros ( Danube ) which was thought to be more or less frozen permanently. The Thraces , Getae , the Sarmatae and the Scytes were considered to live there in the “far North” :) .

  • Külföldi Anonymous Greek

    And it’s “Ancient Greeks” not “Old Greeks” if you don’t mind. Actually the preferred name is “Hellenes” – Ἕλληνες.

  • Külföldi Anonymous Greek

    *light skin , not light skinned :(

  • olga

    @ Greek

    re: “because their skin and religion/race are “acceptable”?””

    Your answer was a non-sequitur because I was not debating the history of people’s skin colour in the past 45K years nor in the present or the future

    The posting was related to the way JOBBIK would rate people and I asked you a question based on my assumption that a Greek Christian who supported the party and has been in Hungary 20 minutes would be more welcome than someone who was J*ewish or Roma with hundreds of years’ ties to Hungary

    • Magyar

      Actually Olga, knowing Jobbik’s pro Turkish views, I doubt a Greek would be loved by Jobbik.

      Also Jobbik is not racist.

      Olga, I know you don’t like reading Hungarianambiance after your coffee, but just LOOK at these pictures, please
      -http://www.hungarianambiance.com/2012/08/delegates-from-kindred-nations-arriving.html

      Jobbik supports that event.

      See? Jobbik is not racist, how many of them are white, barely any.
      But Jobbik supports them, and Turanism.

      So you cannot accuse Jobbik for being racist against non-white people.
      Thank you.

      Also, you might be interested in this:

      \He said we are not Communists, because our spiritual center of power is not based on the concept of class struggle, we are not fascists, because our spiritual center of power is not based on the concept of the state and we’re not Nazis, because our spiritual center of power is not based on the concept of race. But we are not democrats either, in a sense that the term has been defined today, as our spiritual center of power is not based on money and profit said Gábor Vona.

      Our party’s spiritual and intellectual center of power is based on the Holy Crown that represents the Hungarian statehood said Vona.\

  • olga

    @ Magyar

    Great pictures – if I didn’t know any better it could have been taken at a multi-cultural festival in Canada with everyone having a great time.

    I know very little about Turkey but I do know some facts
    1. Turkey is a Muslim country
    2. Hungary is not a popular destination for Muslim immigrants
    3. Muslims are not exactly best buds with J*ews, thus those happy people and their hosts have a common ground

    Gee, could the above points explain why JOBBIK is so friendly with those party goers or am I guilty of jumping to unfounded conclusions?

    Thought to ponder – I copied this paragraph for you from Salon; who would have guessed that the HH crowd in certain European countries has a new enemy while JOBBIK is having a love affair with said enemy?

    Le Pen, the “right-wing liberal” Wilders and the unbelievably weird Breivik differ in crucial ways, but they reflect the range and varied thrust of Europe’s far right, which is showing its greatest strength since World War II. All three have given up yesterday’s J*ew-baiting, at least in public, and proudly proclaim their support of I*srael. They all target Muslims as a major source of Europe’s current woes, preaching a white European nationalism that is largely Christian and intolerant of immigrants and other outsiders \n
    I do think you are a really unique person on this website because I truly believe you don’t get it and you genuinely cannot see that you post the most outrageous racist comments yet you don’t consider yourself a racist nor do you see anything wrong with stating that anti-JOBBIK is anti-Hungarian when the vast majority of Hungarians do not support that party

    You were correct about the possibility of JOBBIK splitting but I am not sure if you would approve of the BudaPost article entitled Will Hungary’s Jobbik Split? on August 6, 2012

    Oh God, Canadian politics is incredibly boring and please keep it that way

    • Magyar

      Olga, I am begining to feel like Leto now.
      Everyone accuses him/her of being an anti-s*mite, even though he is not.
      Same applies for me being supposedly “racist”.
      I am simply pro Hungarian, and I want to keep Hungary Hungarian.
      I don’t want to dilute Hungarian culture with foreign culture.
      I don’t want to dilute Hungarian blood (which has given the world many sports, science and many other achievements) with foreign blood.
      What don’t you understand?

      Regarding Turkey, here are Jobbik deputy Szilágyi György impressions about the country that he has visited this year as a member of a Jobbik delegation:

      “Beyond the youthfulness and economic dynamism Turkey is characterized by respect for knowledge, family orientation, cleanliness, orderliness, friendliness and it has amazing cultural diversity.”

      And you are not wrong about point number 3:
      -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3pq1KIUZb4
      I hope that documentary clears it up.

      “nor do you see anything wrong with stating that anti-JOBBIK is anti-Hungarian when the vast majority of Hungarians do not support that party”
      You see Olga, I believe that the majority of Hungarians are Jobbik voters, they just don’t know it yet.

      “am I guilty of jumping to unfounded conclusions?”
      Indeed you are, becuase Jobbik is friendly with those “party goers” because they are our kin,and distant relatives, sons of Attila, just like us.

      • Paul

        @ Magyar
        “I support Milliyetçi Hareket Partisi”…..they are responsible for death threats against Turkish gays in my country….surely you do not support that, do you?

        Dear Magyar, now do me a favour…death threats…???
        Will try one more time…please answer…Is it okay with you that they are responsible for death threats?
        Yes or no

        • Magyar

          No its not ok, because its a waste of time.
          Milliyetçi Hareket Partisi should be happy that “people in question” no longer live in Turkey.

          Although I can understand their frustration, gay Turks in Netherlands pretending to be real Turks and giving everyone a bad image of them.
          We have similar “Hungarians” from across the Ocean on this board.

          • Viking

            Yes, Jörg Haider was an Austrian Gay, giving all Austrians a bad name

            That he liked Hitler is not so important

    • Paul

      @ Olga

      “They all target Muslims as a major source of Europe’s current woes, preaching a white European nationalism that is largely Christian and intolerant of immigrants and other outsiders \n”
      I very often agree with your comments….loved the part about this website being a sort of hospital.
      Just some words about what you said here. No criticism but some added information.
      First…don’t get me wrong….I am not a Wilders supporter..( I remember you talked about him in a comment to me once, about extremist lunatics….but it was rather complicated to reply)
      So now I try. ………Wilders is useful in our country in his way.
      Wilders is married to an Hungarian woman. He is not a racist at all. (proven by the court). He is not even against immigration etc….he did make an issue of certain No-Go areas in our country because of crime, intimidation from…..sigh…mostly….if not all…. Moroccan immigrants. No Go areas where Dutch women are intimidated and called a whore if they do not wear a headscarf. Other parties looked away too much, too long, until recently. Now ALL parties do adopt this issue. We have a certain history with Muslim extremists…Theo van Gogh (writer, filmmaker and family of…) was killed because he talked about those issues, like: …imams calling Christians pigs, women been beaten up as a rule and approved by imams, gays being attacked by Muslims daily etc. .
      When the tragedy of the twin towers happened there were many neighborhoods where Moroccan immigrants live cheering for their Victory. That is the reason of the strong support for Wilders. So…life is complicated…and you can not put people in a certain category so easily. (you do not…but others do)

      Oh and….Wilder’s, by now is the most threatened person in the Netherlands. He is protected by a special police force day and night. For years already. One of the reasons why he gets so many support…from left and right.
      I would not vote him…but he is not a crackpot…even close.

      • Magyar

        Be careful there Paul, you almost sounded like a racist ;)
        Actually, you did sound like a racist, how dare you say that they are “Morrocan immigrants”, isnt the correct word “Citizens of the Netherlands”.
        I could go on and on, and point out the evil racism in your post ;) :D
        And isn’t Wilder’s wife a J@w from Hungary?

        • Paul

          Hi…Magyar…fair enough…do get the point. But I do not want to be a racist. And I am not. I stand up for Turkish gays, beaten up islamic women etc. I said I did NOT vote for Wilders…just some nuances here. Okay?
          And isn’t Wilder’s wife a J@w from Hungary?…not the slightest idea…is it important?

          • Magyar

            “I am not racist, BUT….”
            So cliché Paul ;)

        • Paul

          @ Magyar
          I could go on and on, and point out the evil racism in your post…please do!

          • Magyar

            “So now I try. ………Jobbik is useful in our country in his way.
            Vona(leader of Jobbik) is married to an Hungarian woman. He is not a racist at all. (proven by the court).

            he did make an issue of certain No-Go areas in our country because of crime, intimidation from…..sigh…mostly….if not all…. gypsies . No Go areas where Hungarian women are intimidated and called a whore if they refuse to give gypsies money. Other parties looked away too much, too long, until recently.

            We have a certain history with Gypsy extremists…Kata Bándy (25 year old Police psychologist) was killed because she was a young Hungarian woman and the gypsies were bored, like: …Gyspy Vojvods calling Hungarians pigs, Hungarian women been beaten up as a rule and approved by Gyspy Vojvods, Hungarians being attacked by Gypsies daily etc. .

            When the tragedy of Kata Bándy happened there were many neighborhoods where Gypsies live cheering for their Victory. That is the reason of the strong support for Jobbik . So…life is complicated…and you can not put people in a certain category so easily. (you do not…but others do)”

            Look familiar?
            Let me guess, now you are going to call me a “racist asshole”, but hopefully you will realise that the Joke is on you ;)

          • Paul

            Let me guess, now you are going to call me a “racist asshole”,

            Nope… i will not…just do not leave out the nuances.I stand up for Turkish gays, beaten up islamic women etc
            Crucial!
            We have a morrocan mayor in Rotterdam attacking exactly those issues which I mention. A morrocan member of parliament is attacking exactly those issues too. I like them a lot.

        • Paul

          I guess what I am commenting here about crime is similar to your comments about Roma crime. I am sure Roma crime exists. Me…for my part however…will happily report too that Morrocan young women are doing very well in our society….lots of male…who did study too. We have a morrocan mayor in Rotterdam attacking exactly those issues which I mention. A morrocan member of parliament is attacking exactly those issues too. I like them a lot. Grasp it Magyar?…( I am your political enemy, still I do appreciate you too…somehow)

          • Magyar

            Paul, when you look at this picture, what do you think?
            -http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Rome_025bac_1746931.jpg

          • Magyar

            Paul, answer me this.
            What obligation does Hungary have to accept immigrants?
            Do we have a colonial past that I should be aware of?
            Did we invade Africa at some point, so we have accept their immigrants?

            Do we have some kind of guilt we have to pay up for?
            What moral or ethical reason is there that we should accept immigrants?
            Is it that bad that I want Hungary to be homogenous?

      • Viking

        Paul says:
        August 10, 2012 at 4:05 pm

        He is not a racist at all. (proven by the court). He is not even against immigration etc
        —

        The Dutch Public Prosecution Service, after initially refusing to prosecute Wilders because it did not consider his statements illegal, was ordered by a court of appeal to prosecute him nonetheless. During the process, they argued that Wilders should be acquitted on all counts

        On 23 June 2011, Wilders was acquitted of all charges, with Judge Marcel van Oosten noting that his statements, although “gross and denigrating,” had not given rise to hatred against Muslims, and as such were “acceptable within the context of public debate.” Van Oosten also said, however, that Wilders’s statements were on the edge of legal acceptability

        So calling Wilders “not a racist at all” is a bit over the top
        It is not a crime to be a racist, that is the simple fact

        And for Wilders being immigration-friendly?
        Wilders advocates ending immigration from Muslim countries, because he does not hate followers of Islam, just Islam…

        • Paul

          @ Viking

          Apparently you choose to deny big problems. Also in Sweden.

          • Viking

            Which big problems do I deny by not agreeing with Islamophobic populists?

            Just because I do not agree with antis*m*ts does not mean I need to be an Islamophob
            Personally I think that any religion basically sucks and I do not think that the UN was correct in allowing the J*w*sh State of Israel to be created, just because Europe wanted to export the J*ws it had not killed off at that time

            Sweden has some problems with immigration, but not at all as big as friends of Wilders want to give attention to
            The propaganda from people like Wilders is basically the same fear-propaganda that “Jobbik” uses against the R*ma in Hungary
            Going against that, basically racist propaganda, does not mean that one does approve of bad things *any* member of *any* minority is doing
            What Wilders is doing, as all these populists are doing, is stereotyping, not to improve the over-all situation, just to improve their own situation

            And if I would be inclined to conspiracy theories I have no problems seeing how the current Israeli Government is enjoying people like Wilders and Le Pen
            I mean, just change the landscape and you have several even more racist organisation in Isr**l, targeting Ar*b/Isl*m

          • Paul

            Wilders is useful in our country in his way.
            Wilders is married to an Hungarian woman. He is not a racist at all. (proven by the court). He is not even against immigration etc….he did make an issue of certain No-Go areas in our country because of crime, intimidation from…..sigh…mostly….if not all…. Moroccan immigrants. No Go areas where Dutch women are intimidated and called a whore if they do not wear a headscarf. Other parties looked away too much, too long, until recently.

            Now ALL parties do adopt this issue….ALL Parties!!!!
            Where is the problem?…My Hungarian wife is very welcome!!

          • Paul

            Which big problems do I deny by not agreeing with Islamophobic populists?

            No Go Areas??? Maybe.

          • Tiszta Magyar

            Paul I am pleasantly surprised with you.
            I mean, theres liberals like you that at least acknowledge the problem, and then theres people like Viking who are completely in denial.

          • Viking

            Paul says:
            August 10, 2012 at 7:50 pm

            No Go Areas???
            —

            Never been in one, but if I understand the concept correct it is one area that the Police left to the criminals to rule

            How is that related to race or religion?

            Similar areas, even if Swedish Police never ever, to my knowledge, totally abandoned areas, there have been and still exists Housing Projects that at least have had severe problems. This problems have been in some cases successfully changed when Local Police have been able to work together with inhabitants and earned their trust as actually protecting them, helping to solve crime
            This is basically a social problem, that happens nowadays in areas that have high immigration, but 100 years ago similar areas existed with Swedes only

          • Tiszta Magyar

            Hey Viking, since you are such a tough Viking, and Gypsy crime doesn’t exist, I have a dare for you.

            Go for a walk in Northern Borsod-Abaúj-Zemplén, especially in the villages of Büttös,Szemere, Pusztaradvány, Hernádpetri for example.

            Wear you best clothes, your most expensive watch, your coolest pair of sunglasses, see how you do!

          • Viking

            Tiszta Magyar says:
            August 10, 2012 at 8:54 pm

            Wear you best clothes, your most expensive watch, your coolest pair of sunglasses, see how you do!
            —

            Obviously you describe an area the local Police have chosen not to keep the order in
            If you read all the old classics you will find similar stories about the slums in Paris and London
            Or why not Harlem in the 70s?

            Proving what?
            Where there is major social problems, there are a high risk for criminality?

            And where are the most victims?
            In those troubled areas and they have no Police that will come and help them
            The time they see a Police Officer, is when the Police is looking for someone of the locals to arrest for some outside crime

            When society abandons those areas, desperate people will look for desperate alternatives and radical ideologies including terrorism can have a breeding ground

            There is no news that problems exists, what would be news would be if someone wanted to solve the problems in a way that the whole society moved forward utilizing the power of poor people who wants to make that trip up the social ladder

          • Tiszta Magyar

            Ooh, is the tough “Viking” scared?
            You are an excuse to your name.

            A true Viking would have already raped innocent people, burned down Churches, looted villages. Have you done any of that in your life yet Mr Viking?

          • …justasking

            @Viking,

            Loved and agree with your following posts…(accept the part where you say religion sucks :D )

            -’Viking says:
            August 10, 2012 at 6:56 pm

            ….Which big problems do I deny by not agreeing with Islamophobic populists?

            Just because I do not agree with antis*m*ts does not mean I need to be an Islamophobe

            -’Viking says:
            August 10, 2012 at 8:28 pm

            …but if I understand the concept correct it is one area that the Police left to the criminals to rule

            How is that related to race or religion?

            -’Viking says:
            August 10, 2012 at 9:09 pm

            ….When society abandons those areas, desperate people will look for desperate alternatives and radical ideologies including terrorism can have a breeding ground

          • …justasking

            Shit!!!! except, not accept…

          • Viking

            Tiszta Magyar says:
            August 10, 2012 at 9:21 pm

            A true Viking would have already
            —

            I am afraid you are a victim for some stereotyping there
            Vikings are just businesspeople
            We are just a bit better in giving an offer you cannot refuse

      • Curious George

        @Paul – My cousin, who lives in the Netherlands, would disagree. He’s never been in any trouble, nor lived on social security, actively contributes not only to the Netherlands but also to surrounding countries both professionally and socially, and is probably better educated than 99% of the Dutch population. I’d be willing to bet that he’s done more for the Netherlands during the time he’s been there, than Magyar has in his entire lifetime for Hungary (I’m almost sure Magyar also skipped his military service).
        Wilders political views include measures which would also stop immigration of people like my cousin simply for the fact that he comes from a non-western country.

        • Magyar

          The Netherlands gave him an opportunity to live a better life than in your jungle or desert.
          His “contributions” are just a way of saying thank you.

          And which country are you from, and do you live in Hungary?

          • Curious George

            The Netherlands gave him an opportunity to live a better life than in your jungle or desert
            What makes you say that? According to you, the Netherlands is a disaster and going to collapse. Many jungles and deserts are more peaceful and thriving.
            Olga already revealed that I am from Narnia.

        • Paul

          Wilders political views include measures which would also stop immigration of people like my cousin…??? I am not supporting Wilder’s solutions either…apparently I have to repeat over and over again. Would hate to be your opponent, I respect you too much. But do not underestimate the real problems. Like no party in the Netherlands does anymore. BTW….my wife is very welcome.

          • Curious George

            @Paul – I have no problems with most of what you said, or believe that you support Wilders. The only line I disagree with is the part that Wilders is not racist. I don’t follow Dutch politics beyond what is in the mainstream international media, and what my friends in the Netherlands tell me. All believe that while some of Wilder’s social solutions are good, his racial views make them unworkable because it apportions blame, while ignoring the country’s own deficiencies. My cousin (& his Dutch wife), both doctors in Rotterdam, also think so, and they work with people from various multi-ethnic backgrounds.
            Even Wilders’ wiki profile of his Klare Wijn manifesto states that he is opposed to only non-Western immigration. I also find it strange that a court would rule he is not a racist. Usually they rule whether (or not) a person has committed a particular act contrary to the law (as Viking pointed out, it is not illegal to be racist).

          • …justasking

            @The Stalinist Bigot,

            ‘Wilders is useful in our country in his way….He is not a racist at all’

            If you only know, how much I’m enjoy, seeing you backpedal, by defending your racist views to both Viking and George!

            In a nut shell, you accept/condone racism towards certain groups….I’m tellin ya, you’re the gift that keeps on giving!!! :D
            ———

            ‘Wilders is married to an Hungarian woman’

            And that has, what to do with the price of tea in China???

          • Paul

            “@The Stalinist Bigot, “
            @ Just manipulating

            Now…I will not bother you with nuances and details, far to complicated for you…and let’s face it, you are not interested anyway….You are interested in only one thing…namely, to qoute you..”moi”..meaning yourself. Because, actually that is all you ever do over here. Talking about yourself. Maybe you can get a job as a Jobbik legal adviser. Now…stop drinking too much, tiny alcoholic…it is bad for your health.

        • Paul

          @ George and @ Viking

          Maybe it was not all together clear what I tried to say. Sorry. I will try it again.

          “I also find it strange that a court would rule he is not a racist.”
          To be precise….Wilders was accused of:

          1. Group insult
          2. Inciting hatred against Muslims because of their religion
          3. Inciting discrimination against Muslims because of their religion
          4. Inciting hatred against non-western immigrants and Moroccans because of their race
          5. Inciting discrimination against non-western immigrants and Moroccans because of their race

          The court decided he was not guilty. Believe me…it was very well looked into.

          “On 23 June 2011, Wilders was acquitted by the court of all charges, because his statements were, as presiding judge Marcel van Oosten put it, “acceptable within the context of public debate.”

          So my point is…do I want this debate? Yes
          Do I want Wilders solutions? No. He doesn’t have any.

          Quote Viking
          “The propaganda from people like Wilders is basically the same fear-propaganda that “Jobbik” uses against the R*ma in Hungary
          Going against that, basically racist propaganda, does not mean that one does approve of bad things *any* member of *any* minority is doing
          What Wilders is doing, as all these populists are doing, is stereotyping, not to improve the over-all situation, just to improve their own situation.”

          Yes, I agree….and currently he is more interested in playing the anti-European card.

          However: Without Wilders, politicians would look away from an escalating problem. I am disgusted to see gays being intimidated and being chased away from their house. Of course there is a connection with Islam. Absolutely no-one in the Netherlands will deny that. The Mayor of Utrecht has only one solution….looking away and downplaying the issue. Everyone wants him to resign now. Within the green party, the social democratic party, christian democratic party…and all others….every politician is part of a debate now. With….and not about…the Moroccan organizations. They, Moroccan organizations, also agree that there is a huge problem. I am for looking into the problems openly. Have an honest open debate….because this will stop extremism….not denying the problems and downplaying them.
          Google…femme de la rue…..Sofie Peeters and you will see why the debate is being held…so openly.
          Open and above all honest debate…to avoid extremism.

          • Magyar

            Paul, the way you coat your words, you are just so scared of being called racist.

            You know, “I am not racist, but…..” is a clear indicator that the person is racist

          • Paul

            @ Magyar
            “You know, “I am not racist, but…..” is a clear indicator that the person is racist”….yep…until now only you and just manipulating are calling me a racist. I am perfectly okay with that. Who cares.

          • Magyar

            Paul, look, I am glad that you at least admit that there is a problem, unlike that coward “Viking” who is so scared of the social stigma that he denies everything.

          • Viking

            Paul says:
            August 11, 2012 at 1:00 pm

            femme de la rue
            —

            I checked it up:
            -http://www.sponsume.com/project/femme-de-la-rue
            and I would say it should be criminal in any country
            It would be the typical thing for undercover women Police Officers to track down and arrest
            That I think would be a great start to changing that bad behaviour

            If someone would call any of my daughters that, I would beat the shit out of them, regardless whatever religion or race they have

          • Viking

            Magyar says:
            August 11, 2012 at 1:23 pm

            that coward “Viking” who is so scared of the social stigma that he denies everything
            —

            I do not deny any social problems, just the stereotyped description of it

          • Anonymous

            @ Viking

            “just the stereotyped description of it”…sounds good.

            Now….

            Sophie Peeters:

            “Why do these men talk to me that way? Is this just a really bad way of flirting? Is it a form of racism; do they feel like all white, western women are whores? Is it something that I specifically do wrong? Apparently it is a problem for almost every young woman in Brussels.”

            ….my question is…do you think Sophie Peeters is using stereotypes here?

          • Viking

            Anonymous says:
            August 11, 2012 at 3:12 pm

            do you think Sophie Peeters is using stereotypes here?
            —

            No, then she asks questions and not making propaganda:
            “do they feel like all white, western women are whores?”

            Stereotyping would be:
            * “all white, western women are whores”
            or
            * “Moroccan men in Brussels thinks that all white, western women are whores”

          • Paul

            @ Viking

            http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/sweden/7278532/Jews-leave-Swedish-city-after-sharp-rise-in-anti-Semitic-hate-crimes.html

            Yep…it was me…sorry.
            Just curious…..any stereotyping here?

            “I never thought I would see this hatred again in my lifetime, not in Sweden anyway,” Mrs Popinski told The Sunday Telegraph.
            “This new hatred comes from Muslim immigrants. The Jewish people are afraid now.”

          • Paul

            @ Viking

            Sigh…moderation problem…dunno why.

            http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/sweden/7278532/Jews-leave-Swedish-city-after-sharp-rise-in-anti-Semitic-hate-crimes.html
            Yep…it was me…sorry.
            Just curious…..any stereotyping here?
            “I never thought I would see this hatred again in my lifetime, not in Sweden anyway,” Mrs Popinski told The Sunday Telegraph.
            “This new hatred comes from Muslim immigrants. The Jewish people are afraid now.”

          • Viking

            Paul says:
            August 12, 2012 at 6:45 pm

            Just curious…..any stereotyping here?
            —

            Of course, on both side of the fence

            The article is two years old, since then some progress has been made defusing the tensions, but I would expect the tensions would flare up again when the situation in the MidEast deteriorates as it did with the Isr**li Crimes Against Humanity in the Gaza Strip

            If pro-Isr**l supporters, mostly extreme right-populists SD, (with leaders known from the J*w-hating neo-Nazi circles), calls to demonstrations to support flagrant Isr**li aggression, then they will most likely be met with very upset relatives and friends to Palestinians living in the area, yes
            As they should!

            Then there is stereo-typing against J*ws in general from youth from Arab immigrants living in Sweden
            Why should they be any better than J*ws supporting open racist anti-Arab parties, inside and outside Isr**l?

            That people who are affected by a conflict are stereotyping is more understandable, than people who are not at all affected by conflict, just trying to draw political profit from the situation, playing the blame-game

            Why this has been a bigger problem in Malmö and not other parts of Sweden, like Stockholm, can probably be found in who are on the ground. The leaders for Swedish J*ws and J*ws in Stockholm, has had a less harsh tone describing the problems they see

          • Anonymous

            @ Viking

            I think I owe you an explanation. Sorry…I am multitasking too…so same reply as to Olga.
            Would appreciate a comment though. Just trying to live and learn. And yes….when people I love are involved….I run a risk to stereotype. I hope I still do not.

            “Good news!!! He ( Wilders) expanded his horizons to Slavs.”…yes he did…..he figured out there were tensions and some incidents and made an issue out of it. No solutions, just to gather votes.
            Not good news at all.
            There is a point that I tried to make though and apparently failed.
            Please type…(Google) sofie peeters femme de la rue……she made a documentary about social problems in Bruxelles.
            It is very much in the news in The Netherlands and Belgium. She pointed to a big problem….she stopped to live in Bruxelles for that reason.
            However….as she explained in an interview on the Belgium Television…she right away had to defend herself against all kind of accusations from many directions that she would be a racist in showing this problem.
            And I think that is a big problem in itself. In the past politicians avoided to address real existing problems, looked away out of fear of being called a racist. Now….after many things happened and after an escalation of those problems, a politician (from the left wing to the right) who is in denial…is out. We have what we call the Islam debate in the Netherlands…Now…not before Wilders…..with all political parties and Islamic organizations involved…and believe me …sometimes it does not look pretty. It is very good that the debate is there though…it is to avoid further escalation and extremism. Without Wilders…the debate would not be there. It is the only….only positive thing of Wilders as far as I am concerned, I do believe it is positive though.
            Now back to Wilders…..Wilders in his words has a problem with Islam, the ideology….not with Islamic people as such. There are aspects of Islam, ( at least the Iranian version or Salafism, also known as Wahabbism, in Saudi Arabia ) like death penalty for those who abandon their religion, like executing gays in Iran, like the suppression of womens rights in both forms of the Islam….which I have also a big problem with . I do now welcome those ideas in the Netherlands either. Does that make me a racist? There are many Islamic people in the Netherlands who do not support those views. So…that is the good news.
            I support those Moroccans, like the mayor of Rotterdam (Aboutaleb ) who are recognizing the issues very well and don’t avoid to talk about them. Which can be dangerous for him. So his courage I admire.
            Why is it relevant on Politics? ….well first I just wanted to answer your questions….second…we can live and learn from each other.

          • Paul

            @ Viking
            Arggghhhh……It is NOT my day….above comment was me.

      • Géza

        @Paul thanks for this honest post, I was a little surprised though! :)
        You should vote on him, because he is the only one left to safe your country from complete destruction by foreigners and the EU.
        You are right he is not a real nationalist as it is understood outside of “modern” Western Europe.

    • Géza

      Wilders given up yesterday’s J*ew-baiting?????? First of all he has a j@wish wife from Hungary, secondly he spend a lot of time in Isreal (kibbutz) in his life and even protects Isreal anytime, while a lot of politicians in Western Europe don’t!!! One of his best friends is Pamela Geller a zionist j@w.

  • olga

    I have no idea what happened but none of my quotation marks
    showed up and there were several and as always, I just typed into the comments section and I “saw” them.

  • Szentkorona

    “Magyar” you are full of shit.
    I have never given any such order to Csatary or his commanders.
    Do not presume to talk in my name, ever again.

  • Géza

    Magyar is one of the few here who makes perfect sence!! It is true what he writes about Hungary and us magyar!
    Concerning immigrants, I am tired of the western liberal cultural relativism which destroying whole countries and societies as we speak in the Western world.
    Sweden is one of the big examples of etnic and cultural suicide, next the UK ect ect
    Why should Hungary commit etnic and cultural suicide like the West is commiting?

    All the hypocritical talk here about racism, you guys from outside Hungary or magyar influenced by Western liberal ideology feel so superiour. It is found in everything you say. The whole world has to except your views of life.
    This is the real racism as Hitler lived it. The master race who has to reign over the inferiour races as you hypocrites want to do.

    What magyar is talking about is that we want to live in our own country with our own people and culture. That is it and we have the right to do so. We don’t have to embrass your liberal multicultural wet dream.
    We magyar don’t want to reign over others, you guys want to do exactly that by pushing your agenda (neo colonianism) on the hungarians. (and on other nations around the globe)

    • Viking

      Géza says:
      August 10, 2012 at 6:52 pm

      Sweden is one of the big examples of etnic and cultural suicide,
      —

      Care to detail this, given that this summer I have visited Stockholm 3 days every week and I did not notice anything special…

    • Albion

      @ Geza & Magyar

      I do not think that anyone wants to stop you being a narrow minded bigoted and intolerant little country. If that is the path you choose to follow. Frankly I do not think many people in other countries give a damn about what goes on in Hungary, so dont flatter yourself with the notion that there is some grand conspiracy against you. But if you wish to be respected within the international community, belong to international organisations like the UN and EU etc and enjoy the benefit snf security it brings, then you have to share and adopt the same values as these organisations. These values include freedom and equal opportunities for all regardless of their race,colour,religion,sex or sexual orientation. I do not see how any of that threatens your culture. If you do not wish to share these values then no one is stopping you from shutting yourself away from the world and living in a racially pure ‘paradise’. How do you propose to create this said ‘paradise’ Will you forbid any Hungarians from marrying someone from another race or religion ? I do not think that would prove popular with many of your young people. Unless you shut them in many of them will take flight and leave and then you will need to be careful about the dwindling gene pool. It might not be long before you are sleeping with your relatives. Im also not sure how you would survive economically if you follow this route, given that no one in their right mind would want to invest in such an isolated country. What exactly would you produce to survive in this brave new world you have created for yourselves ? Seems like you need a reality check.

      As for suggesting that my country, the UK is committing cultural suicide Crap ! I and millions of others who are witnessing the best olympic games ever would beg to differ..A triumph for tolerance and multiculturalism. Is there a more culturally vibrant city than London anywhere at the moment. There does not seem to be much sign of the problems you suggest. I will not deny there are still many problems and challenges to face but there is a genuine desire from the vast majority to overcome them. While your government is busy erecting statues of Nazi collaborators and living in a very dark past, countries in Western Europe are at least trying to build free and fair societies. Judging by the number of young Hungarians who are living and working in the UK, they certainly seem to think that they are in a better place. Any idea why that might be ?

      Why do I care you might ask. Until recently I lived and worked in Hungary for 2 years and met many wonderful people. It makes me sad to read the bile and hatred that is spewed out by people like you.. It makes me even more sad that a disgusting group of people that are Jobbik have almost 20 percent of the vote..You and Jobbik are certainly unrepresentative of the Hungary I know.

  • spectator

    “What magyar is talking about is that we want to live in our own country with our own people and culture. That is it and we have the right to do so.”

    Just one question about this: why do you think, that the moving of ethnic groups around the World or even Europe has ended once for all?
    Just try to imagine, how the people who populated the Carpathian Basin in some elven-hundred years ago reacted to the appearance of Hungarians who wanted settle down?

    I do not intended to go into historical debate over who came when, all what I trying to say, that the process of populating the Earth is far from over, in fact it never will – it’s continuously happening, you like it, or you don’t.
    Otherwise just as good to start to build The Great Hungarian Wall (you have to pick the right borders first, though) and hope, it will protect you from every kind of new information, not to mention the people it comes with.

    If you really want your culture be dominant, then work for it, learn how to make it appealing to others, not alienating everyone as it goes on endlessly here.
    Otherwise you can close in yourself totally and get busy with inbreeding for the greater glory of imbeciles.

    • Magyar

      What kind of moron are you?
      So you support replacing Hungarian culture and language, just because?

      We have been here for over 1500 years, and we will stay here for another 1000 years, whether you like it or not.

      • spectator

        Just where the hell have you read that I support replacing the Hungarian culture and language?

        You’ve obviously missed to read the last two lines of my comment,give it another try!

        Would you like to share with us, that where are you intended to go in 3012 then?
        Only getting curious, nothing special…

    • spectator

      Magyar, take a short brake and think after a bit:

      If every other country would have lived by your rules, what would have happened with those Hungarians who left their Homeland after ’56?
      What would have happened with those, who escaped war, prosecution, famine, you name it?

      Just give some consideration, will you?

      • Magyar

        Europe owes us big time.
        Heck, we have a right to demand reparations from every frigging country in Europe.

        Look, I dont mind immigration per se.
        Its just that I dont want hordes of Pakistanis come to Hungary and live off the welfare, just like their brothers, the Gypsies.

        I don’t mind controlled immigration from friendly states, such as Croatia, Poland for example.

        But let me ask you this.
        Lets say we allowed everyone to come in Hungary, would you be happy that Budapest would be, lets say 40% immigrants?

        Just give some consideration, will you?

        • Viking

          Magyar says:
          August 11, 2012 at 10:52 pm

          Europe owes us big time.
          Heck, we have a right to demand reparations from every frigging country in Europe.
          —

          Yes, please give us the bill, we really are eager to see what is in it

  • olga

    @ Paul

    re: “They all target Muslims as a major source of Europe’s current woes, preaching a white European nationalism that is largely Christian and intolerant of immigrants and other outsiders ”

    I can’t find my posting and I am short of time but I got the impression that you were under the impression I wrote that but I didn’t. I cut and pasted it from “Salon” and not only did I mention that put I put all the correct quotation marks in that posting and none of it showed up. (In fact I immediately posted the lack of quotation marks but then some other postings showed up between between my posting and the quotation marks’ disappearance.

    I also wrote how little I knew about Wilders, but the paragraph reflected what I read about him in the Canadian papers plus the Salon article was the impression I HAD of him and that impression was that he was a racist where Muslims were concerned.

    Good news!!! He expanded his horizons to Slavs. – if he in your opinion is not a racist then we simply have to redefine the word and perhaps Magyar could help out because in one paragraph he once explained to me he was not a racist followed by the most racist opinions about the Roma. So maybe the word has a new meaning and there are “except” and “notwithstanding” clauses in the new and improved definition but some of us were left off the mailing list

    Reference re Slavs: The Globe and Mail February 15, 2012 written by Doug Saunders. I will copy the title but I have no idea why title is “weird” and some words don’t make sense:

    “Dutch politician’s attack on the Slavs reminiscent of Europe’s darker days ”

    BTW, Wilders was not found innocent – not guilty does not mean someone was innocent.

    • Paul

      @ Olga
      “Good news!!! He expanded his horizons to Slavs.”…yes he did…..he figured out there were tensions and some incidents and made an issue out of it. No solutions, just to gather votes.
      Not good news at all.
      There is a point that I tried to make though and apparently failed.
      Please type…(Google) sofie peeters femme de la rue……she made a documentary about social problems in Bruxelles.
      It is very much in the news in The Netherlands and Belgium. She pointed to a big problem….she stopped to live in Bruxelles for that reason.
      However….as she explained in an interview on the Belgium Television…she right away had to defend herself against all kind of accusations from many directions that she would be a racist in showing this problem.
      And I think that is a big problem in itself. In the past politicians avoided to address real existing problems, looked away out of fear of being called a racist. Now….after many things happened and after an escalation of those problems, a politician (from the left wing to the right) who is in denial…is out. We have what we call the Islam debate in the Netherlands…Now…not before Wilders…..with all political parties and Islamic organizations involved…and believe me …sometimes it does not look pretty. It is very good that the debate is there though…it is to avoid further escalation and extremism. Without Wilders…the debate would not be there. It is the only….only positive thing of Wilders as far as I am concerned, I do believe it is positive though.
      Now back to Wilders…..Wilders in his words has a problem with Islam, the ideology….not with Islamic people as such. There are aspects of Islam, ( at least the Iranian version or Salafism, also known as Wahabbism, in Saudi Arabia ) like death penalty for those who abandon their religion, like executing gays in Iran, like the suppression of womens rights in both forms of the Islam….which I have also a big problem with . I do now welcome those ideas in the Netherlands either. Does that make me a racist? There are many Islamic people in the Netherlands who do not support those views. So…that is the good news.
      I support those Moroccans, like the mayor of Rotterdam (Aboutaleb ) who are recognizing the issues very well and don’t avoid to talk about them. Which can be dangerous for him. So his courage I admire.
      Why is it relevant on Politics? ….well first I just wanted to answer your questions….second…we can live and learn from each other.

  • Leto. مؤدّب

    Efraim Zuroff will have to be prosecuted for false allegations. That’s punishable by prison up to 5 years:

    -http://mno.hu/magyar_nemzet_belfoldi_hirei/hamis-vad-gyanuja-zuroff-fal-szemben-1098019

    • Viking

      Yeah, that would really be a fun situation:
      * Csatáry gets extradited to Slovakia based on the EU Arrest Warrant

      * Csatáry gets convicted in Slovakia for Crimes against Humanity

      * Efraim Zuroff gets convicted in Budapest for accusing Csatáry for those Crimes against Humanity, that the Slovaks convicted Csatáry for

      A real Hungaricum…

      • Zsolt

        “satáry gets extradited to Slovakia based on the EU Arrest Warrant”
        Well that won’t happen.

        • Viking

          But its should, like that Irish murderer of small Hungarian girls should be extradited to Hungary from Ireland
          Works both ways

          • Magyar

            Csatáry is Hungarian. He worked for the Hungarian government, and he did what he did on Hungarian soil.

            Slovaks have no right to extradite him.

            Congo, Iran, Australia (just some random countries) have as much right to extradite him as SLovakia.

  • DoubleH63

    @Magyar

    ” Heck even the Nazis only found out about the gas chambers after the war”

    What the fuck are you talking about? There was a gas chamber in every camp – for delousing purposes, and the Nazis sure knew about them.
    Ohhh… you are talking about the ones with showerheads…
    In that case you are right. They only found out about them after the war – because they did not exist before.

    • Nemeth Zsigmond

      But we’re from Hungary, we know nothing, wir haben es nicht gewusst. Please don’t mention the war.

    • Pete H.

      So cute to watch you two little Nazis trying to out do one another in your little game of holoca*st denial.

  • Anonymous

    Magyar says:
    August 13, 2012 at 3:26 pm

    Slovaks have no right to extradite him
    —

    Hallo?
    Anybody at home?

    Slovakia demands extradition. Hungary accepts or denies it, but if Fidesz wants that Irish murderer, then they better give out Csatáry to the Slovaks, otherwise it will be as usual – Fidesz wants different standards to apply

    But maybe the deaths of 2 year old Petra Zoltai and her brother 5 year old Márton Zoltai, are not important for Fidesz?

  • olga

    @ Paul

    Ok, I will look into Wilders when I get a chance, maybe I have more in common with him than I realized when you wrote: “Wilders in his words has a problem with Islam, the ideology…” ( ie : women are one hierarchy below the camels )

    • Viking

      Well, I met a J*wish rabbis who wanted me to swap seat with him on a flight, because he could not sit beside a woman due to his ‘religion’
      I refused naturally, so he had to harass someone else

      So maybe you can find someone who has a problem with J*daism and not J*ws and wants to stop immigration of J*ws and study him also.
      Maybe Mr 8863 can offer some reading material?

  • Paul

    @ Olga
    Smile…Thanks and best wishes.

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