August 8th, 2012

New Zealand PM blasts Hungary’s Afghanistan contingent

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The Defence Ministry and the Hungarian Armed Forces yesterday rejected accusations levelled by New Zealand Prime Minister John Key at Hungarian troops serving in Afghanistan.

Key on Monday criticised the Hungarians for failing to go on patrol at night. He spoke after two New Zealand soldiers were killed and six others injured in clashes with Taliban rebels.

The rebels had entered territory assigned to New Zealand solders from neighbouring Baghlan province, where Hungary’s provincial reconstruction team is based.

“As far as I’m aware, the Hungarians don’t go out at night. Not in Afghanistan anyway – they might in Budapest,” Key said.

It is not the duty of the Hungarian reconstruction team to mop up pockets of Taliban resistance, as that is the task of US, German and Afghan combat units, the Defence Ministry said in response.

The reconstruction team’s job is to manage and co-ordinate development tasks in the province, which the Hungarian soldiers perform in an outstanding way, the ministry added.

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  • Tinshed

    The local Hungarian Consul-General has reacted accordingly.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10825366

    • TJ

      Reacted accordingly? Interesting comments, by Consul “It’s completely unhelpful because I’m sure there’s very good reasons why Hungary doesn’t [patrol at night]”

      Maybe the following helps explain…

      Hungary’s PRT has previously been criticised. A diplomatic cable, leaked in 2010, from US Ambassador to Afghanistan Karl Eikenberry said the country “does little” to address security issues.

      “They are not permitted to fire their weapons except in self-defence, do little more than patrol the main roads and undertake no counter-narcotics activities.

      “When the security situation in northeastern Bamyan Province was threatened by Baghlan-based malefactors, it was the New Zealanders who had to cross into Baghlan to address the problem.”

      Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/Keys-comments-anger-Hungary/tabid/1607/articleID/264573/Default.aspx#ixzz237CG631D

  • ricsi

    Getting yourself involved in a stupid,un-winnable conflict and then blaming others when your guys get killed is rather pathetic of Mr.John Key.

  • Viking

    ricsi says:
    August 8, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    blaming others
    —

    “It is not the duty of the Hungarian reconstruction team to mop up pockets of Taliban resistance, as that is the task of US, German and Afghan combat units, the Defence Ministry”

  • Vidra

    Besides, the clue was in the fact that the Hungarian unit’s mission is \provincial reconstruction\, as in engineers (or something) and not to make night patrols.

    However, Hungary has had \fighting\ soldiers in Afghanistan before (and for all I know might still have), so it’s a question of their doing their duty and sometimes getting killed. Ricsi, would you then agree that Horthy and the 1941 government were \pathetic\ for \getting themselves involved in a stupid, un-winnable conflict\ against the Soviet Union?

    • ricsi

      No fighting for Hungary and against communist Russia is in no way comparable to some stupid imperialist war in Afghanistan.The fact that you even thought to ask such a question is pathetic.

      • Viking

        ricsi says:
        August 8, 2012 at 3:37 pm

        fighting for Hungary and against communist Russia
        —

        How was it in Hungary’s interest together with Nazi-Germany attack Soviet
        In what sense was Hungary threatened by the Soviets at that time?

        • …justasking

          @Viking,

          ‘How was it in Hungary’s interest together with Nazi-Germany attack Soviet
          In what sense was Hungary threatened by the Soviets at that time?’

          Knock it off Viking…you’re just being a horses ass now with that post.

          • Viking

            …justasking says:
            August 9, 2012 at 9:19 am

            you’re just being a horses ass now with that post
            —

            At that specific time, 1941, there was no threat from the Soviet-union towards Hungary
            Remember Nazi-Germany and Soviet-union were in Alliance, they had occupied Poland together

            Now Hungary and Slovakia went with Nazi-Germany 4 days after Nazi-Germany had launched its offensive and sealed its fate for 50 years to come

            What would have come out f it, if Hungary had stayed neutral (remember no fighting on Hungarian land in the beginning) and just defended the 1920 borders?
            Who knows, then this was never an option for Admiral Horthy

          • Magyar

            1920 borders were impossible to defend, due to the borders being purposely drawn so Hungary would be easy to attack.

            The Slovak border was drawn in a such a way that Slovak cannons could reach Budapest.

            And if Horthy refused to do border revision, he would have been a traitor.
            Horthy’s goal was to get back ALL of stolen territory.

          • Viking

            Magyar says:
            August 9, 2012 at 12:14 pm

            The Slovak border was drawn in a such a way that Slovak cannons could reach Budapest
            —-

            Yes and that was the reason why Hungary joined Slovakia in its co-operation with Nazi-Germany on June 26, 1941
            Good call!

            That Horthy wanted to negate Trianon costed Hungary parts that went to Slovakia in the Paris Treaty 1947, so Hungary just lost more land…
            But at least you killed off most of the J*ws, so you have something to be happy for, right?

          • Magyar

            The Vienna awards were Legit treaties (even Slovaks agreed to it), they should be brought back by the EU ASAP!!!!!

          • Anonymous

            “Horthy’s goal was to get back ALL of stolen territory.”

            Like in stolen by the Magyars at “honfoglalás” ?

          • Magyar

            We stole nothing, Vlach moron.

          • Anonymous

            Magyar : ” they should be brought back by the EU ASAP!!!!!

            Maybe you can draw a petition for Brussels in this respect. Otherwise YOU are a traitor of the Hungarian Μεγάλη Ιδέα . A real Jobbikos would knew what to do. You’re a fake one. You don’t even own a Turul egg.

            Γεια σου .

          • Anonymous

            Your whole bunch are certified thiefs, Magyar moron.

          • Magyar

            Vlachs are a “nation” of thieves, liars, beggars and mocskos gypsies.

            Eww, Vlach gypsy!

          • Viking

            Magyar says:
            August 9, 2012 at 1:07 pm

            mocskos gypsies
            —

            Now,now, do not speak bad about your relatives!

            -http://www.politics.hu/20120806/szajer-wave-of-unjust-criticism-against-hungary-subsiding/#comment-116467

            Learn from Csanad before saying ‘sorry’ will take very long time

          • Anonymous

            “Vlachs are a “nation” of thieves, liars, beggars and mocskos gypsies.”

            Yeah. And who the heck are the ones you call “Vlachs” ? Some sort of alternate “Magyars” ? Because it fits – you know.

          • Anonymous

            And again – YOU don’t even own a Turul egg and claim to be called “Magyar” ? Unbelivable.

          • Magyar

            Vlachs = Romanians.

            And nobody owns a Turul egg.
            There is only 1 Turul protector bird.

          • Anonymous

            @Turulless Magyar : See down bellow commrade .

            Γεια σου

          • …justasking

            @Viking,

            ‘At that specific time, 1941, there was no threat from the Soviet-union towards Hungary’

            Listen to yourself…’at that specific time’!

            Given Hungary’s history with the Soviets, how vulnerable Hungary was Militarily after Triannon…naturally, their defences were up.

          • Viking

            …justasking says:
            August 10, 2012 at 7:24 am

            Given Hungary’s history with the Soviets, how vulnerable Hungary was Militarily after Triannon…naturally, their defences were up
            —

            There had been peace for 20 years between Hungary and the Soviet-union
            The Soviet-union was really not seen as aggressive at that time, Poland being the exemption
            Nazi-Germany was seen as the big aggressor and troublemaker at that time

            Horthy choose to go with the strong against the perceived weak and Hungary lost even more land than in Trianon and this loss will never be returned, then to tear up Trianon would be one thing, tearing up the 1947 Peace agreement is a total different matter

          • seinean

            Viking: “The Soviet-union was really not seen as aggressive at that time, Poland being the exemption”

            Please add to Poland as “exceptions” also Finland, Estonia, Letonia, Lituania and Romania. All these countries had been either completely or partially
            occupied by the Soviet Union by the time when Hungary declared war to the Soviets ( 27 June 1941). That basically means that all Western neighbours of the SU were perceiving the SU as “aggresive”.

          • Viking

            seinean says:
            August 10, 2012 at 3:49 pm

            Please add to Poland as “exceptions” also Finland, Estonia, Letonia, Lituania and Romania
            —

            As a member of the Axis, Romania joined the invasion of the Soviet Union on 22 June 1941, after a coup that turned the country into a fascist dictatorship under Conducător Ion Antonescu. The new regime firmly set the country on a course towards the Axis camp, officially joining the Axis Powers on 23 November 1940. “When it’s a question of action against the Slavs, you can always count on Romania,” Antonescu stated ten days before the start of Operation Barbarossa

            Estonia, Latvia and Lituania, like Poland, were all part of the The Treaty of Non-Aggression between Germany and the Soviet Union, aka the Nazi–Soviet Pact and the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact, so here it is hard to blame *only* the Soviet-union. It was a treaty between two countries, so Nazi-Germany should of course take some blame for it

            Finland was also part of this Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact and it was very close to Britain/France went to war with the Soviet-union. This would have caused a totally different scenario for the Nordic countries
            (-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-British_plans_for_intervention_in_the_Winter_War)

            So, the question here is, the Nazi-Soviet Pact caused a lot of problems for the ‘buffer’ countries, so why was it more correct to attack the Soviet-union more than Nazi-Germany?

            Slovakia, Romania and Hungary all made thorough decisions and choose to go East. They all had scores to settle from the outcome of WWI and this score-settling was the real reason
            And after the end of the first WinterWar in Finland 30 November 1939—13 March 1940 it was rather clear that the Soviet-union did not have a very successful military machine. The Soviets had more than three times as many soldiers as the Finns, thirty times as many aircraft, and a hundred times as many tanks. The Red Army, however, had been crippled by Soviet leader Joseph Stalin’s Great Purge of 1937, reducing the army’s morale and efficiency shortly before the outbreak of the fighting. With more than 30,000 of its army officers executed or imprisoned, including most of those of the highest ranks, the Red Army in 1939 had many inexperienced senior and mid-level officers

            Soviet was perceived as weak and that was the real reason for the timing of the attacks. It was not a defensive action, it was an offensive action

          • seinean

            Viking,

            All the countries I mentioned had been PREVIOUSLY agressed by the Soviet Union. Who said anything about Operation Barbarossa being a deffensive action ?

            I just disagree with your following statement : “The Soviet-union was really not seen as aggressive at that time, Poland being the exemption” .

            Please mind that I fully agree with: “Nazi-Germany was seen as the big aggressor and troublemaker at that time”.

            Why some of those countries joined Hitler in his offensive against the SU is a different story.

            Greets

          • Viking

            seinean says:
            August 10, 2012 at 5:07 pm

            I just disagree with your following statement : “The Soviet-union was really not seen as aggressive at that time, Poland being the exemption”
            —

            Agreed
            It was a bad statement

          • Anonymous

            Justasking,

            You are a horse’s ass for defending Hungary’s alliance with Nazi Germany.

            It was a cowardly and the sign of a weak culture.

          • …justasking

            @Anon,

            ‘You are a horse’s ass for defending Hungary’s alliance with Nazi Germany’

            Lets set aside the name calling for now and focus on your post shall we…

            Lord love a duck, if I had a nickle for every-time I’ve said ‘I’d never do this or I’d never do that’…only to have done the complete opposite when actually faced with the situation.

            It’s always nice to pretend you’re somehow better than others, when you’ve a) never been in their shoes, or b)having been presented with the gift of hindsight.

            I’m not DEFENDING Hungary’s alliance with Germany, however, I do UNDERSTAND how and why the decision was made to throw their hat behind who they did. Big difference.
            ———–

            ‘It was a cowardly and the sign of a weak culture’

            Yeah…well, I don’t see it that way. I see as a hopeless situation of ‘damned if you do and damned if you don’t’. Stalin VS Hitler…you’ll have to decide which one you think was the lesser of 2 evils.

            To me, both were the same.

      • Vidra

        Sure they are comparable, except that the axis powers said they were fighting against communism and America says it’s fighting for freedom. You could just as easily say that the Axis was fighting for fascism and America is fighting against Islam. Both are bullshit, like the justification for starting just about all wars.

      • Anonymous

        Really, fighting for Nazi Germany is a honorable course of action? It is you who are pathetic.

    • …justasking

      @Vidra,

      ‘However, Hungary has had \fighting\ soldiers in Afghanistan before (and for all I know might still have), so it’s a question of their doing their duty and sometimes getting killed’

      No it’s not, not if their mission has changed from ‘fighting’ to ‘reconstruction’ like Canada did. Their duty now, is to help Afgan solders/police etc, to stand on their our 2 feet.
      ———-

      ‘Horthy and the 1941 government were \pathetic\ for \getting themselves involved in a stupid, un-winnable conflict\ against the Soviet Union?’

      Considering that Hungary had already had a ‘taste’ of Communism under Kun, and didn’t want any more of it…you tell us if it was ‘pathetic’ and ‘stupid’ attempt on Hungary’s part to fight an unwinnable’ conflict?

      Would you have preferred that we rolled over and showed our bellies instead off the get-go?

      • Anonymous

        You did roll over. You helped Adolf Hitler.

        • …justasking

          @Anon,

          Oh, so you would have supported Stalin?

  • Cnut

    Hungarians passing the buck again. It’s never their fault.

    PRovincial Reconstruction units include military units. It’s not about engineers.

    -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provincial_Reconstruction_Team

  • Magyar

    Why should Hungarians risk their lives for some American imperialist project?

    Hungarian soldiers should be patrolling Erdély and not Afghanistan.

    • Vidra

      Maybe because Orán is more interested in big butch fighting men doing their duty as a member of NATO than he is in meeting Hungary’s obligations to the EU.

      Hungarian soldiers should be helping, in whatever capacity they can, to improve Hungary within its post-1947 borders.

    • Anonymous

      “Hungarian soldiers should be patrolling Erdély and not Afghanistan”

      They do. From the outside. Yes, you are allowed to weep and sob.

  • ricsi

    IDIOT EVERYBODY WAS THREATENED BY COMMUNISM,REMEMBER HUNGARY HAD THE JXW BÉLA KUN AND HIS RED TERROR IN 1919-21,Soviet communism was the biggest threat to Europe,even panning to attack Germany in 1940-41 (Soviet general staff admitted this recently).What did Hungary gain from jxw Rákosi,Ernő Gérő etc… until 1956? Soviet jxw paradise?? Wakey,wakey swede.

    • ricsi

      Above was directed at Viking not Vidra.

  • Viking

    ricsi says:
    August 8, 2012 at 6:13 pm

    Soviet communism was the biggest threat to Europe,even panning to attack Germany in 1940-41 (Soviet general staff admitted this recently)
    —

    You definitely share the ‘threat-picture’ with your old pal A Hilter, not so many more at that time

    If Soviet was really planning to attack Nazi-Germany 1940-41, they did a lousy job doing that – right?

    The Soviets actually did a very poor job defending themselves for a long time and as Swedish espionage shown from that time, mostly listening in on German and Soviet radio-traffic, the Soviets were totally surprised and in total disorder.
    The Swedes had already cracked the German Enigma (code) machine, so they could decrypt most of the communication coming into Berlin and the Soviets did not encrypt, then their order had broken down totally

    And *when* would it be *bad* to attack Nazi-Gemany?

    Just shows the little pro-Nazi in you, does it not?

    • Tom

      @Viking,

      I really think it is time you get off your high horse. As a Swede you should be one of the last people to bitch about the morality of Horthy’s cooperation with Germany.

      Sweden must be commended for receiving and protecting 7-8,000 Danish Jews as well as tens of thousands of Norwegian war refugees in the last couple of years of WWII, but right now you are the pot calling the kettle black. It is historical facts that your country contributed extensively to building up the war machinery of the Nazis and that it also took part in bankrolling their efforts.

      Sweden was one of the biggest, if not the biggest, suppliers of iron ore to the Germans in the 1930s and Swedish factories delivered a lot of processed iron and steel products to the German armament industry – even factories owned by the family of Raul Wallenberg. Just like the Swiss, you used your ‘neutrality’ as a smoke screen for your lucrative trade with Germany all the way up to 1943, where you were given the choice to sever your ties with Germany or be seen as an enemy of the Allied Forces. So much for your moral high-ground.

      It may have been missed by your spy agency, but, in 1932-33, the Holodomor, in neighboring Ukraine, had already shown what the future would hold for Hungary if it just rolled over and became one of Stalin’s satellite states. Horthy had a very difficult choice to make and his decision was based on cooperating with, what he saw as the lesser of two evils, cooperation with Germany. Sweden did not face being caught between a rock and a hard place until much later, with the German invasion of Denmark/Norway and Finland joining the Axis.

      The irony of the situation is that when Horthy decided to cooperate with Germany, Hitler was an angry little racist nationalist, but when the Allies decided to cooperate with Russia, Stalin had already shown his face as an imperialistic mad-man with blood on his hands from more than a decade of genocide. Still, Hungary always ends up with the Black Peter when talking about WWII.

      Now, before the right-wing trolls start getting hard-ons; here is one for them. Horthy proved many times both in words and actions that he despised the Arrow Cross and everything it stood for. I find it quite interesting that the right-wingers are the primary force behind the Horthy cult – if he was still alive, he would despise them and what they stand for as he always saw both right-wing and left-wing extremists as the biggest threat to Hungary.

      The world is not all black and white and for every argument for (or against) the actions of Horthy, there are plenty of direct opposite considerations.

      • Viking

        Tom says:
        August 14, 2012 at 12:20 pm

        I really think it is time you get off your high horse. As a Swede you should be one of the last people to bitch about the morality of Horthy’s cooperation with Germany
        —

        That was The Perfect Argument!

        And where are you from?
        The UK, then you are autocratically complicit in several War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity that Britain has performed over the centuries, and not only in the WWII?

        If you are from the US… well, do I say something more?

        I am not representing Sweden or is not even defending Swedish history – Why should I?
        I am not even claiming that Sweden came out better in the WWII than Hungary, from a moral perspective

        Is this A Game where we are suppose to elect which Nation was Best?
        And I thought the Olympics finished last Sunday?

        Let me now re-iterate my question in the post you criticized:
        * And *when* would it be *bad* to attack Nazi-Gemany?

        • Viking

          ‘autocratically’ should of course be ‘automatically’

      • Anonymous

        Tom,

        You pretend to be in the mainstream, but you are not. Wolfi is not responsible for the purported actions of Sweden.

        As for Horthy, he was effectively a dictator and allied himself voluntarily with Hitler. Lots of Europeans resisted Hitler. However, the Hungarians jumped right into bed with Hitler and had a veritable lost fest.

        And no, there is no dispute among real historians that Horthy was anti-semitic and an authoritarians with fascist tendencies.

        So quit trying to change the issue by attacking people’s nationality.

  • steve

    Where were the as…le New Zeelanders in 1956 to come to the aid of the Hungarians

  • Andy

    “Key on Monday criticised the Hungarians for failing to go on patrol at night. He spoke after two New Zealand soldiers were killed and six others injured in clashes with Taliban rebels.”

    Come and get killed with us!

  • Anonymous

    Turulless Magyar : \Vlachs = Romanians\

    Interesting. I allways thought the \Vlachs\ are the 7-th Magyar tribe who lost his way from Etelköz and landed down here in Epirus and Macedonia. B’cause they do have some Turul eggs they display at weddings – you know ?

    Rumour has it that they are fake or Ostrich (Struthio camelus) eggs, but it cannot be. They are just too protective with them. Especially when they throw with plates and glasses around.

    Well – one has allways something to learn. Isn’t it ?

    Γεια σου

    • Magyar

      I hope you are joking :)

      -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlachs

      • Anonymous

        Well Turulless Magyar,

        Hope is the last to die. ( Or was it to dye ?). You know – like you hoping that someday Turulless Tiszta Magyars will patrol in the territory you call Erdely. With their rooster feather on their hats and wearing shining black boots – of course.

        • Magyar

          Indeed my Greek friend.
          Anyway, so how is Istanbul doing?
          Even thought about marching there with pom-poms on your shoes?

          -http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/60000/Greek-Guard-in-Fan-Skirt-60430.jpg

          • Külföldi Anonymous Greek

            Konstantinopolis ( The City) – like Buda/Pest is belly dancing for the benefit of the turists (Szilvia comes to mind). And pom-pons are just for those deserving from the Patrida my fellow honfitárs.

        • Magyar

          “With their rooster feather on their hats and wearing shining black boots”

          Just like here
          -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9RKZ3A5sJ0

          • Viking

            Yes, that must be a wet dream for you
            I suppose that is what your grandfather did and why you are so proud of him

  • NOONE

    Well I have worked with the hungarians over there as a OMLT unit. OUR job was to mentor the ANA. We would go out on missions to those areas and conduct patrols. Well we were suppose to. Most of the hungarians I was with didnt want to leave the gate. They were there just to get paid. They make 3x what they would make back home. They are very stubborn when it comes to military tactics. We try to tell them that they are doing something wrong and there saying is YEA YEA I KNOW. Then they continue on with what they were doing. They are a very hard country to work with. Many many other countries tell us the same thing. In my opinion they are wasting time over there. I wasted my time over there with them and question why they still have the hungarians and US over there. We missed a lot of opportunities to do the right thing, but since the hungarians were in control we could do nothing. Since we the US were just a 12 man team we could go on our own. Even though we could of done a lot better job. Dont get me wrong as a person the hungarians were cool. As Soldiers they are not.

    • Leto مؤدّب

      “They were there just to get paid.”

      Of course, why else would they be there? :D

      • Drako

        Hungarians are useless, as always. If you want to have a job done, NEVER count on Hungarians.

      • Anonymous

        But if you receive payment are you also expected to do your job. Clearly these Hungarians do not feel the same way. No pride in themselves obviously. No wonder your country is going down the pan.

  • Pipo

    Hungarians are born suckers, wetting their pants like babies.

  • get real

    pipo you took the words from my mouth:

    Hungarians are born suckers, wetting their pants like babies.

    let me add : since Mohach til today!

    VIVA TRIANON!

    • trollolah

      If Pipo took anything from your mouth, he should be tested for herpes!

      Viva RoMexico!

  • Anonymous

    Seems Hungarians are only brave if they are herding unarmed civilians into death camps at gun point, or poncing around the countryside in their silly uniforms intimidating Roma women and children. Brave…really brave.

    • Anonymous

      Ah, those J@wish military virtues!

      -http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/dailymail_humanshield.jpg

      • Albion

        Yes, the actions of the I@@aelis in the occupied territories are a disgrace and cowardly. But what has that got to do with Hungarian obligations to ISAF-NATO ?

        • Anonymous

          Why didn’t you ask this from the one who brough up this boring WWII topic instead?

  • Magyar

    Why should Hungarian ENGINEERS have to risk their lives in the name of America’s mission in Whogivesafuckstan?

    Had it been Transylvania for example, they would have patrolled the crap out of them, daytime and nighttime.

    • Albion

      Its a Nato Mission called ISAF-NATO. Or is this another organisation to which Hungary is supposed to contribute but chooses to do so only when it suits ?

      Would you and your Jobbik wankers rather be friends with the Taliban and Iran to suit your anti J@@sh agenda ? Previous comments by some of your leaders suggest you would.

      Re your statement

      ”Had it been Transylvania for example, they would have patrolled the crap out of them, daytime and nighttime’;

      Aside from being so incredibly short sighted, Dont kid yourself. You lot have not got the balls..far safer to intimidate Roma women and children in Hungary while a benign government looks the other way.

  • seinean

    You’re allowed to come and visit. You’re allowed to wander around. You’re even allowed to wear rooster feathers at your kalap. Just come to explore the Carpatian garden :) :)

    -http://www.romaniatourism.com/

  • Magyar

    Am I allowed to take the border crossing sign to Brassó?

    Btw, funny how most of \Romanian tourism\ consists of Hungarian castles.

  • seinean

    Sure. Then you’ll also have the oportunity visit some local jails. Basides – what meaning borders have nowadays ?

    If you’ll take another look – most of the castles are rather Saxon . But you’ll appreciate – I’m sure – how much we value the country’s legacy from vanished times.

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