September 3rd, 2012

Headlines reveal silly, sinister sides of Hungarian-Armenia “war”

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With the Hungarian government’s release yesterday of a diplomatic protest to Azerbaijan, the sudden and intense war of words between Budapest and Armenia over the “Ramil Safarov case” is likely to quickly cool off, and there is probably not much more that can be said about the bizarre standoff that you can’t find in the 300+ comments posted here. But two webpage “screengrabs” that we took on Friday evening are worth sharing.

The first (above) is from the article on leading English-language Armenian portal hetq.am announcing Yerevan’s severing of ties with Budapest – which they mistakenly identify as the Romanian capital of Bucharest. (The headline has since been corrected, but the URL for the story still shows up the flub.) What can you say about a vicious fight between two countries where even the people supposedly in the know have a hard time IDing the capital of the enemy state? Pretty silly, no?

At the same time we saw this, something much less silly was taking place on the homepage of key government-friendly Hungarian daily Magyar Nemzet, where the editors apparently couldn’t figure out how to spin the deeply embarrassing story and instead decided to utterly bury it, as if this would prevent news of the row – which was at the same time a top item on all the other big portals in Hungary, as well as the BBC’s website – from making the rounds in Hungary. Though to be fair to the editors/censors at mno.hu, at least they correctly identified the capital of Örményország as Jereván.

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  • Sevak

    How about revealing the significant sides of the “war”, e.g. that the government of Hungary prostitutes?

    • Anonymous

      You are stupid Sevak, dumb, dumb, dumb!

      • Leto مؤدّب

        Of course, after all he’s a hülye tótocska. :)

  • Leto مؤدّب

    Good article, Erik. :)

    Ceterum censeo MSZP delendum est.

  • Frankly Franklin

    In other news, Armenia has outbid the offer to buy all of the privately held Hungarian national debt paper from a Swiss company loosely tied to a corporation that owns an undisclosed percentage of the beloved Commie Red themed grocer and unlikely permit-winner CBA.

    The organization, “NincsSimicskaItt KFT,” which has developed ties with a number of remarkably successful “grant assistance” companies in the EU-application oligopoly, has recently been cites as an “up and coming player” in international dealings. The sale of the paper will provide the company with an incalculable and, due to Swiss privacy laws, wholly secret windfall for its similarly shielded Hungarian owners.

    The organization won doubly in this case when it was revealed that a subsidiary Lichtenstein-licensed and Hungary-operated corporation would oversee the planning, development, and putting out for bid of several grants related to the distribution of the oily windfall the Azerbajani deal provided. Proceeds from the transaction are expected to be tax-free, regardless of legal requirements in Hungary itself, or by decree of the Prime Minister’s office.

    Lol. Drama ensues.

  • Zoltán MASSAY-KOSUBEK

    Did Hungary act fully in line with the international law?

    Definitely not. But may I immediately add thereto: Hungary didn’t violate the international law, either. In fact, the European Convention of the European Council on the Transfer of Sentenced Persons regulates the deliverance of sentenced persons outside of their home countries and Hungary formally followed the rules (at least the letters) of the Convention. But doing so, he violated the spirit of the convention: such a deliverance of a sentenced person can take place ONLY IF the other party give APPROPRIATE GUARANTEES that the judgment will be executed under the same conditions. And it had to be obvious for everyone, that the words of a Minister of Justice cannot be considered as an appropriate guarantee in that case since SAFAROV, the axe murderer is considered as a national hero in Azerbaijan. And even not lawyers could have been aware of the existence of a potential Presidential Pardon. (another legal example: A Serbian murderer Magda Marinko has been sentenced for lifelong prison for several assassinations in Hungary. However, he cannot be delivered to Serbia since there is still death penalty in Serbia and Serbia couldn’t give enough Ggarantee that it wouldn’t execute the murderer if Hungary delivered him. At least so far.)

    Further details on my blog:

    http://massay.kosubek.zoltan.dinstudio.com/diary_1_41.html

    I remain at your disposal

    Mr Zoltán MASSAY-KOSUBEK
    http://about.me/zoltanmassaykosubek

  • wolfi

    Zoltán, thanks for your participation here – at last another voice of reason!

    @all:

    You should bookmark his blog!

  • Magyar

    “However, he cannot be delivered to Serbia since there is still death penalty in Serbia and Serbia couldn’t give enough Ggarantee that it wouldn’t execute the murderer”

    Whats wrong with that? Send him off to Serbia ASAP.

  • Paul

    Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe eper exotic

    Friday, July 13, 2012

    It is not surprising that this climate of intolerance and revisionism has gone hand-in-hand with an outbreak of intolerance, such as the anti-Semitic verbal assaults on a 90-year old Rabbi and on a journalist, an attack on a synagogue menorah in Nagykanizsa, the vandalism of a Jewish memorial in Budapest and monuments honoring Raoul Wallenberg, the Blood Libel screed by a Jobbik MP just before Passover, and the recent revelation that a Jobbik MP requested–and received–a certificate from a genetic diagnostic company attesting that the MP did not have Jewish or Romani ancestry.

    We are frequently told that Fidesz is the party best positioned in Hungary to guard against the extremism of Jobbik. At the moment, there seems to be little evidence to support that claim. The campaign to rehabilitate fascist ideologues and leaders from World War II is dangerous and must stop. Ultimately, democracy and the rights of minorities will stand or fall together.

    Hungary is not just on the wrong track, it is heading down a dangerous road. The rehabilitation of disgraced World War II figures and the exaltation of blood and nation reek of a different era, which the community of democracies–especially Europe–had hoped was gone for good. Today’s Hungary demonstrates that the battle against the worst human instincts is never fully won but must be fought in every generation.

  • olga

    @ Zoltan

    I hate arguing with an expert BUT …

    As you wrote, Hungary did not violate International Law but Azerbaijan did. You talk about the “spirit of the law” but one assumes that when a country signs a Treaty and its clauses that said country will stand behind the agreement.

    You also wrote: ” such a deliverance of a sentenced person can take place ONLY IF the other party give APPROPRIATE GUARANTEES that the judgment will be executed under the same conditions ” – what is your definition of “appropriate guarantee” in this case and whatever it is, how could it have been enforced?

    On the Serbian issue your wrote: “Serbia couldn’t give enough Ggarantee that it wouldn’t execute the murderer if Hungary delivered him. At least so far ”

    “At least so far” sounds like if the situation changes down the road and Serbia would guarantee that Magda Marinko will not be executed than the transfer may be a possibility. If Serbia signs an acceptable guarantee then executes the guy, should Hungary be accountable?

    If there is a legal way to get rid of murderers in a country and the legal requirements are met, it sounds good to me and if both these criminals meet an untimely death one day “By Persons Unknown” that would be my subjective legal definition of “tough luck”

    (I had to put the phrase “By Person’s Unknown” in quotation marks because it’s the title of a book about the
    murder of Christine Demeter in Toronto about 30 years ago. Her Hungarian husband Peter Demeter hired a contract killer to murder her and he is still in jail.)

    • Anonymous

      To Olga: ….and to finish the story the contract killer returned to Hungary and when Canada asked for his return Communist Hungary did not cooperate.

  • DoubleH63

    @olga

    “Hungary did not violate International Law but Azerbaijan did.”

    Olga, get off this obsession, they did not.

    • InjusticeInHungary

      Ok, no one violated the law, neither Hungary, nor Azerbaijan and everyone is happy, including the murderer.

      Kill the next sleeping Armenian. Do it in Hungary, because you’ll become a hero in that case and as a bonus, Hungary’s economy will blossom.

      • Leto مؤدّب

        He killed someone else because of your tribal hatred in Hungary.
        He’s served 8 years in Hungarian prison, at Hungarian taxpayers’ expense, then he was extradited to his home country according to international law and practice. His home country broke the conditions of the extradition.
        He was not and he’s mot considered a hero in Hungary, only in his homeland.

        But keep whining, of course. Moron.

        • InjusticeInHungary

          There is no hatred from my side, I just paraphrased what “DoubleH63″ is saying. I didn’t say hero in Hungary, let him be a hero in Azerbaijan.

          I wonder why “report abuse” button is missing.

        • InjusticeInHungary

          So, Azerbaijan broke the promise to not let the murderer free.
          What are the actions of Hungary? If justice was that important for the government of Hungary, they would either make Azerbaijan return the murderer or break diplomatic ties with Azerbaijan.
          So, what are your actions to re-establish the justice?

          • Leto مؤدّب

            Hungary has protested in a diplomatic note.

            “or break diplomatic ties with Azerbaijan”

            Or you’re an absolute idiot. :D

            Anyway, Azeribaijan has refuted they plan to buy Hungarian bonds, they never did. So now shut up.

            -http://www.nepszava.hu/articles/article.php?id=581801

          • Leto مؤدّب

            -http://www.oilfund.az/en_US/news/786/100/Official-Statement-of-the-State-Oil-Fund-of-the-Republic-of-Azerbaijan.asp

          • InjusticeInHungary

            Meaningless to talk to you…

  • Viking

    olga says:
    September 3, 2012 at 8:43 pm

    If Serbia signs an acceptable guarantee then executes the guy, should Hungary be accountable?
    —

    With that outcome it was obviously *not* “an acceptable guarantee”, so the moral responsibility is still on the Hungarian side, then Hungary should have known better

    And forget that the Hungarian Foreign Ministry Civil Servants did not exactly know what would happen one month before it actually happened in Azerbaijan
    Of course they knew and I want to believe the Fidesz top leadership had been informed about different scenarios
    That is what you pay all these Civil Servants for, to have knowledge on the ground and foresee different developments

    So, The Supreme Leader knew about what would most likely happened (remember this specific murderer was regarded a hero and Azerbaijan had tried to get him free from Hungary since 2004…)

    And there was no other reason to send this murderer to Azerbaijan, than 3 BEUR
    If that is OK for you, as with ‘leto’, well that is your problem

    The main problem for Hungary is that it has a Government of clowns and amateurs, who cannot accept real info from the ground (civil servants) and then the described scenario happens, back-tracks on all, just to save their own asses, leaving Hungary most likely without the 3 BEUR…

    This sordid story just shows that Orban is as incompetent as coward. Which part dominates you can decide

    If Orban’s Master Grand Plan was, like ‘leto’ hinted, to get 3 BEUR, why then not say it straight-out and defend the relation with the Azerbaijan as long as they borrowed out their 3 BEUR?
    I think Orban would win sympathy with that approach here and there, but Orban is to coward even for that
    But this is Fidesz – never a straight line more than 2-3 days…

  • Ciprian

    Bucharest is the real capital of Hungary; that’s no mistake. Viktor Orban is just the pussy version of Victor Ponta so it’s only a matter of time and you’ll see the Drapelul Romaniei on your parliament.

    • Leto مؤدّب

      Actually Rumanian politicians were fuming that “Rumania is governed from Budapest” when Mr. Orbán made that half sentence remark that the best decision is not to vote on the referendum… and this saved President Basescu’s seat. :D

      • Ciprian

        … Saved President Basescu’s seat… RFOL
        It’s an empty seat, means nothing. Even Clint Eastwood would not talk to it.

        • Leto مؤدّب

          LOL

          So there has been, there is and there will be a lot of bitter fighting about “an empty seat” in Rumania. :D

    • Anonymous

      To Ciprian: Dumb talk from a stupid person.

      • Anonymous

        So true, so very true!

        • Anonymous

          To Ciprian: Smart talk from a bright person.
          So clever, so very clever!

  • olga

    @ Viking and Double

    Viking : I can fully sympathize with the Armenian people at such a grave injustice and I can understand people questioning Orban’s motives but I don’t see how Hungary broke International Laws because it didn’t.

    Double: re my claim that “Hungary did not violate International Law but Azerbaijan did” and your response ” Olga, get off this obsession, they did not.”

    Azerbaijan did not violate International Law because you said so and one does not question your wisdom or because I used the wrong term and should have used words like “Convention” or Treaty” ?

    It appears there was an undertaking for the ax murderer to serve his remaining prison sentence in his homeland and instead he was freed. What exactly is the appropriate phrase to use to get the idea across that the decision makers in Azerbaijan were lying scums?

    Of course there is always a possibility that you know more than those of us who rely on the mainstream media and documented history in general as opposed to Kuruc type publications, thus you may have inside info that a “legal technicality” voided the agreement

    • Viking

      olga says:
      September 4, 2012 at 3:17 am

      Viking : I can fully sympathize with the Armenian people at such a grave injustice and I can understand people questioning Orban’s motives but I don’t see how Hungary broke International Laws because it didn’t
      —

      I have not claimed that Hungary broke any International Laws referring to this case, but that is not the case here, from an Hungarian point
      From an Hungarian point it is the case of a malfunctioning Government which fucked-up big
      Nothing else

  • Anonymous

    Reminds me of the story where a dog bites a hand and the dog’s owner is angry at the bitten person for having his hand out to be bitten.

    • Anonymous

      OH SUCH WISDOM IN SO FEW WORDS. Not all of us are blessed with this ability to say a lot with so little!

      • Anonymous

        An advertisement for a hair cream said “A little dab will do you”!

  • olga

    @ Anonymous

    re: “To Olga: ….and to finish the story the contract killer returned to Hungary and when Canada asked for his return Communist Hungary did not cooperate.”

    I don’t want to contradict you because it’s been years since I read that book but I was under the impression that the hired killer nicknamed “Kacsa” who fled to Hungary and died there before the extradition procedures had a final outcome.

    Kind of a shame the ax murderer didn’t follow Kacsa’s footsteps and saved all this political upheaval.

    • Anonymous

      To Olga: No, the extradition procedure was a ruse, a sham – intent was insincere on the part of Hungary but “Kacsa’s” demise worked out well for both countries.

  • olga

    @ Anon

    I am not surprised that the procedure was a ruse but if that was in the book, I forgot those details. Yes, it did work out well for both countries especially the Canadian taxpayers :) )

    I gather you know Demeter could not give up his hobby of trying to hire contract killers, thus he is still in jail for trying to have his cousin’s nephew and his lawyer’s child killed as well.

    • Anonymous

      To Olga: Yep. Can it be said once a subcontractor always a subcontractor?

  • Grigori Davtyan

    Do not deceive yourself. The argument you invented to support your shameful position on the Hungarian government misdeed against international law and Armenians is the only silly thing in your article.

    The misprint you found on the one of non-leading Armenian websites, was present in the English translation of the headline only and relates to the fault of its translator, as neither Armenian nor Russian version of that headline contained such misprint.

  • Grigori Davtyan

    Hey, stupid author of this article, don’t deceive yourself.))) The argument you invented to support your shameful position on the Hungarian government misdeed against international law and Armenians is the only silly thing in your article.

    The misprint you found on the one of non-leading Armenian websites, was present in the English translation of the headline only and relates to the fault of its translator, as neither Armenian nor Russian version of that headline contained such misprint.

    • Leto مؤدّب

      The international law was fully respected when Safarov was extradited to Azerbaijan.

      • Viking

        Yes, on*_BOTH_* sides
        Neither the Azeris nor the Hungarians broke any laws, meaning everything is hunkydory, correct?

        More than selling a sentenced murderer for 3 BEUR knowingly that murderer will be pardoned immediately makes you accessory in the Azeri plan
        Or just plain stupid…especially as you will probably not receive any money, just the abuse of the world as being characterized as a whore

        Your pick which picture suits you

  • Viking

    Leto مؤدّب says:
    September 4, 2012 at 8:44 am

    -http://www.oilfund.az/en_US/news/786/100/Official-Statement-of-the-State-Oil-Fund-of-the-Republic-of-Azerbaijan.asp
    —

    So that should make the biggest débâcle of The Supreme Leader official then…

    Orban missed the most important rule when making deals, goods and money change hands at the same time
    Now Hungary, again for the 50-eleventh time, looks extremely bad internationally without any gain whatsoever, read my lips, whatsoever

    So how will now ‘leto’ explain this sordid deal as a way of “getting out of IM’s deadly grip”, as he have done previously?

  • Aloof

    @Leto مؤدّب says: September 4, 2012 at 8:43 am
    Hungary has protested in a diplomatic note.
    “or break diplomatic ties with Azerbaijan”
    Or you’re an absolute idiot. Anyway, Azeribaijan has refuted they plan to buy Hungarian bonds, they never did. So now shut up.
    -http://www.nepszava.hu/articles/article.php?id=581801

    Ah… more absolute BS from Fidesz’s pied piper.
    The State Oil Fund of The Republic of Azerbaijan (SOFAZ) is not planning to purchase Hungarian bonds or any other financial assets in Hungary, it said in a statement on Monday. The first reports about Azerbaijan’s possible debt purchase in Hungary occurred in early August. Reuters reported about a month ago that Hungary was in talks with Turkey and Azerbaijan to issue sovereign bonds in local currencies.

    Later last month Government Debt Management Agency (ÁKK) Deputy CEO László András Borbély said the ÁKK was not planning on a public government bond issue denominated in foreign currency until an agreement with the IMF is reached.

    So OV’s plan was to use the issuance of bonds as leverage in talks with the IMF for a pre-cautionary loan versus a standy loan that the IMF, especially now, is the only that they’re going to get from the IMF if any?
    Where is the official Azeri document supporting that scenario? What did OV and his sinister crew get, a wink and a nod?

    So for the 10th time WHY did Hungary and OV release Safarov and WHY now?

    I also love the continued arrogance of this misfit blowing off Armenia breakiing diplomatic ties as insignificant. Who in the EU, US and Russia are ever going to trust this miscreant? Actually the guy has now become a security concern for the EU. He’s privvy to a lot of sensitive EU information.

    OV stepped in it and big time pal. His arrogance, incompetence, unprofessionalism and naivette are killing Hungary. This is not an honorable man.

    • Leto مؤدّب

      You can rejoice now that this attempt to avoid your favourite IMF jackals failed, too. I said yesterday that the deal won’t go ahead since the Azeri broke their word about Safarov’s serving his sentence.

      Ceterum censeo MSZP delendum est.

      • Aloof

        I don’t want to rejoice, what in the hell is there to rejoice about?

        OV went too far down the road with his anti-EU/IMF crap (because he didn’t want to appear weak) that he got so desperate that he was willing to sell his soul and Hungary’s honor.

        Well he doesn’t have to worry about being perceived as weak anymore, he’s managed to be perceived as someone that can’t be trusted and even worse unstable. That’s a whole lot different than unorthodoz.

        Perception is reality these days bud and in practical terms you can count on creditors and investors avoiding Hungary with a 20 foot pole while he’s ruling. If you think that is going to blow over, especially in diplomatic circles, then you’re more naive than he is.

        • Leto مؤدّب

          “what in the hell is there to rejoice about?”

          I wrote it clearly above. Rejoice about the now more likely triumph of the IMF jackal pack.

          Ceterum censeo MSZP delendum est.

          • Aloof

            So what does OV do now? He’s really backed himself into a corner. His arrogance is not an option anymore politically.

            Brace for bad news…
            In view of the latest developments related to the 2013 budget an increasing number of analysts believe that the signing of the credit deal with the IMF/EU will suffer a not insignificant delay.
            In a research note published on Monday, Bank of America Merrill Lynch said the talks might even collapse. On Tuesday, Eszter Gárgyán, Citi’s Budapest-based economist, said the budget plans are working against a swift agreement.

            LMFAO… only took Hungary a half hour to respond to that versus 3 days on the Azeri goatrope.

            “The Hungarian negotiating mission continues to expect that the parties will stick to the schedule determined earlier and the talks will continue in September,” Varga’s office said in a statement.
            IMF External Relations Director Gerry Rice told a press conference in Washington last Thursday that the IMF has not yet set a date when the negotiations with Hungary continue on a financial assistance programme.
            “We do not have a date for the next visit to Budapest. We are in touch with the Hungarian authorities and with our European partners on those issues that were discussed in July,” he said.
            According to press reports the IMF/EU missions left Budapest a letter listing tough conditions when they left in July. The government should respond to these issues before the talks could resume.

            The ball is in your court bud…

          • Leto مؤدّب

            “The ball is in your court bud…”

            Yeah. Now the Russian card is out of question since the Armenians are their poodles.
            However don’t think for a moment your IMF jackals will have an easy lunch now.
            Keep rejoicing.

            Ceterum censeo MSZP delendum est.

          • Leto مؤدّب

            “a letter listing tough conditions when IMF left in July”

            Yeah, they left a harsh ultimatum. They want to make an example of Hungary.

            Ceterum censeo MSZP delendum est.

      • Viking

        Leto مؤدّب says:
        September 4, 2012 at 11:35 am

        I said yesterday that the deal won’t go ahead since the Azeri broke their word about Safarov’s serving his sentence
        —

        Lie!
        The Azeris just promised to follow paragragh 9, but paragraph 12 gives them total control to pardon the killer at their disposal

        The Azeris never broke any laws, then they followed paragraph 9 (serve sentence to end) and then applied paragraph 12 (pardon at their will), which just means that paragraph 9 been fulfilled (sentenced served to end), then the sentence has been converted into a pardon

        ‘leto’ and the rest of his ilk of Fidesz-fuckers never made lower grade of Law and Justice, so any horse-trader can cheat them in anything. They are just so unbelievable stupid

        No wonder that the change the laws every month in this country, they never understand what the just decided…

  • Paul

    BBC

    “Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban on Monday said his country acted within international law, and denied there was any secret deal with Baku.
    Reuters had reported a week earlier that talks had been held over a loan from Azerbaijan to Hungary of 2-3 billion euros.”

    This will not be priority no.1, but will be high on the agenda though. It will be discussed in Brussels, Berlin, Paris, Washington etc.
    There will be a lot of talks…about….not with the Hungarian Government concerning this subject among other problems with the current Hungarian Government.
    I think the EU leaders will consider talking TO this current Fidesz government a waste of energy by now.

  • Leto مؤدّب

    Talking with Orban is never a waste, it’s a privilege for the happy few.

    • Leto مؤدّب

      Dögölj meg, hamisító rohadék. Megtanultad Gyurcsánytól, ugye?

      Ceterum censeo MSZP delendum est.

      • Nikki

        Oh Leto, you make me so damn hot when you talk like dirty like this. Please let me know your facebook account so we can finally meet, my naughty, naughty postcommie basher xxx

  • Aloof

    @Leto مؤدّب says: September 4, 2012 at 1:22 pm
    “a letter listing tough conditions when IMF left in July”
    Yeah, they left a harsh ultimatum. They want to make an example of Hungary.
    Ceterum censeo MSZP delendum est

    Oh I get it, this is why OV was forced to go off the reservation with the Azeris. It was the EU’s fault!
    LMFAO!!

    Don’t fear, remember OV also said this:
    “Germany has a destiny, and one can not choose his destiny.” If he said that about Germany he absolutely believes the same for Hungary and himself. How Calvinistic that destiny business is…what is the tin hat saying today?

    Me thinks he better start kissing some serious EU ass until he can BS Hungarians with something else.

    • Leto مؤدّب

      In case you didn’t know, the Hungarian prime minister is Calvinist.

      Me thinks don’t count your chickens before they are hatched.

      Ceterum censeo MSZP delendum est.

      • Aloof

        I know I said he was, Kover is a pagan and Lazar is a degenerate, what a trio! Still LMFAO…

  • olga

    @ Anonymous

    re: “Yep. Can it be said once a subcontractor always a subcontractor?” Very clever given his profession :) )

    Just to stay on topic, I don’t see him as any better than the ax murderer.

    I am still trying to understand Article 12 of the Agreement:

    “Convention on the Transfer of Sentenced Persons
    Strasbourg, 21.III.1983
    Article 12 – Pardon, amnesty, commutation
    Each Party may grant pardon, amnesty or commutation of the sentence in accordance with its Constitution or other laws. ”

    It sounds like #12 negates every other clause in the Convention and the host country is not legally bound by the agreement so that doesn’t make sense; sounds like an “Honour System” instead of Legislation

    Here is the Canadian version of Article 12 in a similar situation with Egypt – sound like loopholes were taken care of:

    ” International Transfer Of Offenders
    Legislation and Policy
    ARTICLE 12
    Pardon, Amnesty, Commutation
    Unless the transferring and the receiving States agree otherwise, the transferring State alone may grant pardon, amnesty, or commutation of the sentence in accordance with its constitution or other laws.”

    Canada had all the power as opposed to Hungary in the terms of the Strasbourg agreement.

  • olga

    Correction – I meant:

    It sounds like #12 negates every other clause in the Convention and the receiving country is not legally bound by the agreement so that doesn’t make sense; sounds like an “Honour System” instead of Legislation

    • Viking

      Correct, it is called politics
      Make everyone happy
      Just ask Orban now…

  • Mike

    Azeries are scumbag liers. Tey have even killed their own people with axes to accuse Armenians

  • DoubleH63

    @Viking

    “The Azeris never broke any laws”

    Viking, in all honesty Leto never said they did that either; olga was the one who kept repeating that [hopefully by now she understands, why I kept telling her: no they did not.]

    The Hungarian government made a huge blunder by not getting a better guarantee than a vaguely worded letter.

    • Viking

      DoubleH63 says:
      September 4, 2012 at 6:19 pm

      Viking, in all honesty Leto never said they did that either
      —

      You may better tracking The Real Leto against The White George…but I have some remembrance of that, but so many posts have passed, so I may be mistaken

  • olga

    @ Double

    I keep thinking about the way the Canadian government worded Article 12 but the bottom line is, how would the
    Canadian government enforce the agreement now or in the past if Egypt decided to set the criminal free?

    Thus it appears the Hungarian government acted in good faith, did not break any International laws and as far as the Azeri government is concerned, scumbag liars is an appropriate description.

    While the Canadian Article 12 is better worded, the bottom line is that if there is no enforcement mechanism the criminals’ homelands are still on an honour system and maybe you see a different outcome if the Hungarian government had the Canadian type wording but I don’t.

  • olga

    @ Viking

    Double is right, it was me who insisted about the Azeri gov’t breaking the law. They did not, they simply broke the agreement and Article 12 gave them the right to do so

    I am thinking of offering my \legal services\ to the people in Strasbourg and rewrite Article 14:

    Article 14 – Termination of enforcement

    The administering State shall terminate enforcement of the sentence as soon as it is informed the convicted killer’s plane landed and rely on Article 12 making the whole Agreement worth shit.

    I just have to edit it with more professional language but I think I captured \the spirit of the law\

    • Viking

      olga says:
      September 4, 2012 at 11:03 pm

      Double is right, it was me who insisted about the Azeri gov’t breaking the law. They did not, they simply broke the agreement and Article 12 gave them the right to do so
      —

      I am not so sure the Azeris broke the Agreement in a legal sense, maybe in a moral sense, but that just makes The Supreme Leader look like an easy push-over

      And if I have understood it correct, Hungary is not seeking any legal remedy at any International Court, so end of story

      It is as you write, paragraph 12 makes the rest of the Treaty a bit redundant…so makes pointing to the Treaty stating “We did everything legal!” also, then everything is legal…

  • DoubleH63

    @olga

    “maybe you see a different outcome if the Hungarian government had the Canadian type wording but I don’t.”

    I don’t know either. In my opinion this criminal should have not been handed over [the outcome was almost 100% predictable], no matter how much money they have promised the Fidesz government. Or how “friendly”, “important” they are for Jobbik in the future.
    [Jobbik kind of defending the Hungarian government on this action.] To me: it was immoral.

  • Viking

    DoubleH63 says:
    September 5, 2012 at 1:48 am

    [Jobbik kind of defending the Hungarian government on this action.] To me: it was immoral
    —

    But the Azeris are “Turanic Brothers” also, so how can two “Turanic Brothers” screw each other and behave the same way as how you would use the J-word to describe it?

    (Did you not already call the Aziris this?)

  • olga

    @ Viking and Double

    Viking: If you don’t think about the horrific crime and simply think of what happened objectively, it would appear that neither Hungary or Azerbaijan broke the Agreement and therefore

    1. it’s not worth the paper it’s written on
    2. Hungary cannot seek any legal remedy at any International Court because of the wording of Article 12

    @ Double

    I read your posting at 8 a.m. Toronto time and almost spit coffee all over my computer screen when I read ” To me: it was immoral.”

    Immoral??? The reality that this word was used from the man who posts the most disgusting racist comments was a shock until I realized that maybe your brain is programmed to think rationally subject to the Roma and/or J*ewish people not being involved.

    I also read your comment on another thread stating that your family background pre-Maria Theresa was discussed previously but I missed that one, however you forgot to translate “insufferable snob” to Hungarian for me. Must have been an oversight or perhaps you had a couple of glasses of that California wine from Kuruc Wineries and did not notice the question

    • MagyarViking

      olga says:
      September 5, 2012 at 3:30 pm

      Viking: If you don’t think about the horrific crime and simply think of what happened objectively, it would appear that neither Hungary or Azerbaijan broke the Agreement and therefore

      1. it’s not worth the paper it’s written on
      2. Hungary cannot seek any legal remedy at any International Court because of the wording of Article 12
      —

      Agreed on both points and to be 100% clear, in the Agreement I include the “clarification letter” aka “The Promise” from some understudy at the Azerbaijan Foreign Ministry

  • Grigori Davtyan

    Besides, if Hungary’s MFA really sure that it was compliant with intl law, why it lied to Armenian colleagues up the eve of ax-murderer release?
    e.g. http://times.am/?l=en&p=12029

  • Jake Threefeathers

    How now brown cow? It seems for Armenia the chickens have come home to roost and the hypocrite Armenian slicks are not happy. Apparently these Armenians don’t believe in the principle of “sauce for goose, sauce for gander.”

    I don’t recall a peep of protest or outrage when France gave an early release in 2001 to the Armenian terrorist Varoujan Garabedian who was deported to Armenia where he received a hero’s welcome and was greeted at the airport by Armenian prime minister Andranik Markarian.

    For these clever Armenians and others who may be afflicted with a selective case of memory, it should be recalled that Garabedian who was a leader of the Armenian terrorist organization, ASALA, was convicted of the 1983 bombing of the Turkish Airlines counter at Paris’ Orly Airport. In that heinous attack, 8 victims lost their lives – four French nationals, including a child, two Turkish nationals, one U.S. and one Swedish national.

    The Armenian terrorist Garabedian now lives on Easy Street in Yerevan, enjoying a generous Armenian government stipend.

    • MagyarViking

      Jake Threefeathers says:
      September 6, 2012 at 4:49 pm

      I don’t recall a peep of protest or outrage when France gave an early release in 2001 to the Armenian terrorist Varoujan Garabedian
      —

      France *pardoned* Garabedian after 17 years in French prison, so technically he was a free man when he arrived to Armenia. The Armenians did not do anything

      In many European countries 17 years imprisonment is about what you get life, some more some less

      The pardon was precluded with several international and French campaigns to free Garabedian, then his guilt was questioned
      Cases are not very similar

  • Jake Threefeathers

    Indeed, MagyarViking, the two cases are not similar. The Azeri officer killed the Armenian officer in a fit of rage upon provocation. The Armenian terrorist thug Garabedian took EIGHT innocent lives with premeditated deliberation and calculation. Actually, the intent of the Armenian terrorist was to detonate the bomb inside the airplane, causing the deaths of a great many more victims. The bomb went off prematurely.

    “International and French campaigns to free the Armenian terrorist Garabedian”???

    Please don’t insult our intelligence, Mr. Viking. What you really mean is a campaign by the insidious, hate-mongering, bloodthirsty Armenian lobby.

    • MagyarViking

      Jake Threefeathers says:
      September 6, 2012 at 8:46 pm

      The Azeri officer killed the Armenian officer in a fit of rage upon provocation
      —

      Yes, the provoking Armenian officer was so much provoking the Azeri officer, that the Armenian officer started to sleep while doing the provocation…

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