October 8th, 2012

Atatürk bust erected in Budapest, immediately vandalized

Barely two days after it was unveiled on September 29, the bronze bust of Kemal Atatürk was doused with red paint by unknown people in Budapest’s District XIX.

Atatürk, Turkey’s founding father and first prime minister, is seen by many Armenians as being responsible for the 1915 genocide against the country’s Armenia community, in which more than a million Armenians were systematically killed by the Ottoman government.

The incident came amid continued strained relations between Hungary and Armenia over the extradition by the former of an Azeri military officer who killed his Armenia fellow student in Hungary in 2004.

The unveiling was preceded by strong protests from the local Armenian community, while the district government had been urged by the Foreign Ministry to rethink the plan. [index.hu]

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  • Géza

    in the first place what is a bust of Atatürk in Hungary????! Why should we honour a turkish leader? There is no single reason to do so…
    Next what are Armenians doing in Hungary? Another example to keep foreigners out of our country, because they have always their own interest at heart never ours!

    • Observer

      What makes you to be so sure that it was an Armenian who has done it? Just because this stupid and racist author suggests this in the article without any proof?
      This might be very well the work of some Hungarian anti-Turanist.

    • Babila

      I think you should thank us foreigners for the incomes we are bringing here…plus the support of EU.
      Without both no one would know that your country exist.
      Openmind please.

    • Kevork

      Your recent ancestors certainly didn’t have your opinion of Armenians, and in fact would have probably thrown you in jail for your comments, knowing out of the 13 heroes of Hungary 2 were Armenians.

      Go get educated in your own culture first before vomiting your garbage and showing your own people what an incompetent fool you are.

      • Anonymous

        There have been some succesful Slovak-Hungarians, Romanian-Hungarians, Serb-Hungarians, German-Hungarians, even J@w-Hungarians.

        So fucking what?

        • Kevork

          What are you trying to argue pea-brain? You make no sense. The point of the post is, when Armenians were fighting for Hungarian independence and became heroes, where were idiots like you and Geza claiming “what are Armenians doing in our country”? Now get lost.

          • Magyar

            Anomynous technicaly has a point, however unlike Romania, Slovakia,… Armenia never really did harm to us.

            I have absolutely nothing against the Armenian community in Hungary, as long as they don’t turn against us due to the mistakes of the goverment.

            Despite people here trying to paint me out as an Armenian hater, I appreciate Armenian heroes in Hungary, Armenian chess players, and I heard nice things about Armenian women ;)

            It is very unfortunate the situation both Armenia and Hungary are in.

  • Stalingrad

    Why not erect a bust of Stalin? After all he has done so much educational work in Hungary. He taught Hungarians not to be too arrogant, to know their limits, for example not to walk to Volga with naughty German friends…
    This I could understand, but what has Ataturk to do with Hungary?

    • Observer

      Ataturk means “father of Turks”. As they are still people in Hungary who link themselves to Turks and Turanism (e.g. Orban and “Magyar”) they think that Ataturk is also their father.

    • Kevork

      Turks have to buy their friends, either through money or lies, since they have the worst reputation in the civilized world as genocidal lowlifes. They like to claim Hungarians and Turks have a common ancestor… like they tried to claim recently some Afro-American-Indians were Turks, and got laughed at.

      Regarding the Hungary-Turk supposed “connection” – if this was true, Hungarians today would have had a history of being Islamic, not Christian. Turks use the word Hun to take advantage of an ambiguous history, and the only reason Hungary is called Hungary (Hungaria) is because after the Huns left Europe, historians of the time (1000+ years ago) kept using the term, so it stuck to this day.

      • Magyar

        Sorry, but you are wrong in so many ways.

        Religion has very little to do with ethnicity.

        Please use logic and common sense, thanks.

        Turks originally were not Muslim.

        • Kevork

          It doesn’t matter what Turks were. Hungarians who were never Muslims, means first of all, they had no connection with Central Asian tribes for at least 1,500 years. The Huns who merely invaded that part of Europe left hundreds of years before that. When the Huns established themselves in certain parts of Europe, the term Hun was just a lfet over after they left.

          In addition, Hungarians existed in Europe, when you Turks had not even started your westward migrations/invasions in 900 AD. There is absolutely no connection with Turks and Hungarians.

          • Magyar

            Maybe not modern Turks, but there are indeed Bashkir-Magyar, Uyghur-Magyar connections.

            1500 years ago, Hungary was not in central Asia, but in the area of Eastern Ukraine, because we have began our movement there much earlier.

            And there is indeed a Hun->Avar->Magyar continuity.

            So stop trying to spread anti-Hungarian propaganda, we reject the Finno-Ugric “theory”.

            I have a question for you.
            Bosniaks are Muslim, so are they according to you, not Slavs?

            Or pakistanis are also Muslims, but according to you, are they not Indo-European?

          • Magyar

            What you dont understand is that both Turks, Hungarians, etc etc come from Proto-Turanians.

            These then split off and went off into different directions, and evolved seperatelly.

            Within the Indo-European family, you have Muslims, Atheists, Christians, Hindus, various sects, with various looks.

            You can go from a blonde German to a dark Indian.

            They are very different, but nobody denys the Indo-European indentity.

            Turanism is something similar, therefore your argument does not hold.
            Please research Hungarian history, you might think you are an expert, but you are not.

          • Leto مؤدّب

            @Magyar:

            The linguistic relation between Hungarian and the Finnish-Ugric languages is well-established by linguists. The ethnogenesis of Hungarians is another question and Turkic people do play a significant part there indeed… and there was also an old Turkic influence as a language stratum. The English language also still belongs to the Germanic branch of the Indo-European languages despite the Norman Conquest in 1066. This neo-Romance stratum hasn’t made English into a neo-Romance language.

            Ceterum censeo MSZP delendum est.

          • Magyar

            The Ural Altaic theory should also get looked over.

            There are indeed similarities between Turkic and Hungarian languages.

            However, the Finno-Ugric theory is mostly based on a couple of words and speculation.
            There are NO cultural, archeoligical, etc etc proofs for it.

  • Aloof

    So when does Hungary get their Heydar Aliyev statue?
    -http://www.rferl.org/content/azerbaijan-biggest-export-heydar-aliyev/24727872.html

  • Magyar

    Atatürk is a man that deserves respect, since he kicked out illegal occupiers of Turkish land after WW1.

    We Hungarians must follow his great example, and do the same with Wallachians, “Slovaks”, Serbs, you name it.

    If Hungary can have statues of postcommies, why not Atatürk ?

    • Shadow

      Ataturd is a genocide criminal. He didn’t kick out “illegal occupiers”, he IS the illegal occupier. Do not let media blind you. Ataturd played as much of an influence on Hitler as Pasha did. He is the reason genocide denial exists. The Hungarians have twice in the past few months insulted humanity.

    • Daniel

      Why dont you go back to your original homelands, in Asia, near Ataturk’s descendants and leave us romanians, slovacks and serbs live in peace?

      • Californicus

        Good idea. Romanians can go back to Italy. Slovaks and Serbs can go back to the Crimea. Germans and Celts can move back in. Everyone will be at peace!

        • Magyar

          Romanians have nothing to do with Italy, they belong in Northern Albania.

        • Californicus

          Sounds absurd, doesn’t it? That’s the point. No honest person would look at *all* the data and say that Hungarians have an original homeland in Asia or that Romanians have an original homeland in Italy. Yet the Romanian language has everything to do with Italy and Hungarian is an Ugric language. To suggest that there’s an original homeland in Asia for modern-day Hungarians, as Daniel did, is as absurd as saying that Romanians should go back to Italy.

          • Daniel

            I admit my comment was absurd, but it was a proper answer to Magyar, who said:
            “We Hungarians must follow his great example (Ataturk), and do the same with Wallachians, “Slovaks”, Serbs, you name it.”

    • Karpatok

      If Hungary can kick out Wallachians,why can’t it kick out the A8hkinaz** descendants of Khazarian converts?

  • Magyar

    Turkish investment in Hungary shows dynamic growth

    An EUR 250-300 million Turkish telecommunication contract is close to signing and negotiations began with the world’s second largest Turkish glass manufacturing company that intends to expand in Hungary said the chairman of the Turkish-Hungarian Chamber of Commerce and Industry on Friday, in Hévíz.

    At the Hévíz Turkish-Hungarian businessmen meeting Suat Karakus said to the Hungarian news agency that the Turkish telecommunication investment is the largest Turkish investment in Hungary up to date.

    -http://www.hungarianambiance.com/2012/10/turkish-investment-in-hungary-shows.html

    • Observer

      And you claim you have Hungarian parents… You are a female (exchange) student from Kazakhstan currently studying in Budapest!

      • Magyar

        Wow, you truly are a dumb moron.

        Take your J@wish, Slavic and Armenian propaganda somewhere else.

  • justasking…

    Why is this even news?

    The vandals obviously had a pretty sound ‘political reason’ to support their action.

    This story, is like….soooo….yesturday!!

    • Leto مؤدّب

      You bet that judge wouldn’t rule that way in this particular case of vandalism.

      Ceterum censeo MSZP delendum est.

      • justasking…

        @Leto,

        ‘You bet that judge wouldn’t rule that way in this particular case of vandalism’

        Probably not; but, a good lawyer could argue it, using it against him.

  • Magyar

    Red paint, therefore postcommies did it.

    • justasking…

      @Magyar,

      ‘Red paint, therefore postcommies did it’

      Good to know…I obviously misinterpreted it.

      I though the use of red paint, was to symbolize this individual having blood on his hands.

  • Shadow

    MAGYAR IS A FILTHY TURK PRETENDING TO BE HUNGARIAN.
    DON’T BE FOOLED

    • Magyar

      And who are you? Another Armenian retard?

      Its safe to say my opinion of you went from neutral to low.

      • Shadow

        Yes I’m Armenian. I’ll never deny that. You, on the other hand, have said, to quote, “We Hungarians…”

        You are a confirmed liar.

        No one should take your opinion seriously.

        Everyone should have a low opinion of you.

        • Magyar

          Your inteligence amazes me, I though Armenians were supposed to be smart?

          I did not lie, I am indeed Hungarian, who believes that our future lies in friendships in the east.

          • Shadow

            No, I think it’s very obvious you’re a turk:

            1. You’re a liar (Nuff said)
            2. You’re Armenophobic
            3. You think money justifys crime.
            4. You called Armenians and Greeks “illegal occupiers” of their own land.
            5. You think everything Armenians say are lies because it doesn’t make sense with turkish propaganda world.

            You sound like a turk to me.

          • Magyar

            1) Nope, you are the liar here.
            2) No I am not, only to morons like you Someone like Tsayt is more reasonsble

            3) No I do not, however it was either that or the IMF. In the long run, its better to be humiliated by Azeris than hand over the keys to the country to Goldman Sax. I am not happy we were in this position in the first place, but those were the only two options of the goverment.

            4) If Turks are occupying Armenian land, then we are occupying “Slovak” land. It would be hyppocritical of me to accuse Turks of doing the same.

            5) If you accuse me of BS and lies, then I have a right to accuse you of lying.

            6) I have been posting here much before the release of Safarov, why dont you ask someone else if I am a Turk or not.

          • Shadow

            Maybe I’m starting to believe you. However:

            1. How am I a liar?

            2. “chimping out on here and spreading lies” = Very Anti-Armenian comment. You also call things Armenians say “propaganda.” Very turkish thing to say. Why? What has Armenia used propaganda on?

            3. Wasn’t talking about Hungary selling Safarov actually. I was talking about your Turkish investment in Hungary comment. A typical turkish mind set is that they can do anything because their economy is sooooo good, no one will want to punish them.

            4. No idea what you’re talking about. I skimmed the Hungary–Slovakia relations Wikipedia page and couldn’t find a mention of this. But I doubt you’re occupying most of the Slovakian country. I bet it’s just a city or two. Big difference. And what kind of uncivilized world do we live in when people think stealing from other countries is ok under any circumstance?

            5. I’m not really sure how that person came to the decision you are a Kazakh… so I’ll let you have this one.

          • Magyar

            1) Well, you accused me of things that weren’t true. so…

            2) Well, recently there has been a surge of anti-Hungarian propaganda from Armenia, various articles and websites.

            I did not vote for Fidesz, yet somehow I and many other Hungarians seem to get the blame.

            3) I only posted an article from Hungarianambiance, that was it……….

            4)Well, for about 60 years before Hungarians arrived, there was a Slavic state called Great Moravia, that covered most a lot of today’s Hungary. I guess you could say that we stole Slavic land from them.
            Although before the Slavs, it was the home of Avars, Huns, Gepids, etc etc.
            But from an anti-Hungarian point of view, we invaded Slavic and Romanian land.

        • Americanian

          Hey, Shadow… nobody here denied the Turks committed the Armeniano-caust. However, you seem supportive of an act of vandalism. Get some perspective.

          Magyar… Na, mi van? De tenyleg? Fuck Ataturk with the broken sword of a dead Janissary. Hell, Turk celebrities belong on Magyar soil like Suleiman… dying of a stroke in the mud while they lose with a 50-1 advantage.

          But also… this is Hungarian money being spent. Nobody has the right to vandalize anything, protest speech or not. If you don’t like that statue, there are others to look at, people.

          Otherwise go to jail. Magyars will sell you back to your home country for a promise of bond purchases later.

        • Shadow

          Well, this makes more sense now. You should know that there isn’t actually any Anti-Hungarian propaganda going on in Armenia. Throwing tomatoes at the Hungarian flag was an automatic August 31, 2012 reaction.

          After that, a lot of Hungarian groups voiced their disagreement about their governments decision. Armenian media made no attempt to hide this and it soon became public opinion that Hungarian people shouldn’t be blamed.

          In fact..

          “I do not want Armenian people to turn their back on the Hungarians, because of Hungary’s government which was against us.” – President Sargsyan

          Sorry about any Anti-Hungarian reactions Armenians may have had, but you can’t understand what was going through our minds. For over a hundred years, murdering Armenians has not been treated as a crime. To see this.. it just felt like nothing at all had changed since 1915. Nothing had changed since Hrant Dink. I felt like I was going to throw up when I saw the video of azeris cheering for Safarov, to see the life, safety and freedom of all Armenians being mocked. I don’t think anyone can understand this feeling but us.

  • Magyar

    I have been accused of many things in the past, such as being a racist, being antisemetic, being a fascist.

    But today I saw two hilarious attempts, one called me a “female student from Kazakhstan”, and now I am a “filty Turk”.

    I am beginning to feel like Leto.

    • Shadow

      Add being a liar to that list.

  • Tsayt

    The saying goes: “show me who you honour, and you’ll show everyone who you really are”.

    Azerbaijan honours Safarov. Hungarians, along with Turks, honour Ataturk.

    enough said!

    The last few weeks have been a great exposure of who the Hungarians are really like. I just pray the images and the action of the recent past of Hungary is not a true representative of the nature of Hungarians.

    • Magyar

      And I certainly hope the Armenians that have been chimping out on here and spreading lies are not true representatives of Armenians.

      Like I said, I never had anything against Armenians, but the past few weeks lost any symphaties I had for you.

      • Andranik

        Hey turd, who gives rats ass what you think about the Armenians?

      • Varmik

        Why would you have anything against us? Armenians didn’t do any thing wrong to you Hungarians. Actually, it’s quite the opposite.

        Hungary betrayed us Armenians, by freeing a criminal that killed an Armenian official. You should be ashamed of this treacherous act and by your corrupt hungarian government.

        Now having the bust of this criminal “ataturk” in Budapest is another mistake for Hungary.

        • justasking :)

          @Varmik,

          ‘Hungary betrayed us Armenians, by freeing a criminal that killed an Armenian official’

          Hungary didn’t free the guy, the Azerbaijan Government did…your beef should be with them.
          ———

          ‘Now having the bust of this criminal “ataturk” in Budapest’

          As I said to another poster…believing this man to be a criminal, would be dependent upon, on which part of the fence you were standing behind.

          • Varmik

            While Hungary didn’t technically freed him, his extraditing is what caused the freeing of this criminal. Having him extradited in a neutral country would be acceptable, but extraditing an Azeri in Azerbaijan is the same as setting them free right away. Hungary already knew how Azeri hates Armenians and Hungary knew the consequences of this act. It’s not like they were naive in sending him to Azerbaijan. Orban knew it would anger us and yet he still chose to do it.

            That’s what makes us Armenians really mad.

            While “ataturk” may be considered a hero among Turks, a criminal remains criminal no matter the public perception. Like Hitler was considered a hero among Germans during WW2, “ataturk” is considered a hero among Turks.

          • Tsayt

            “believing this man to be a criminal, would be dependent upon, on which part of the fence you were standing behind”

            Same was (still is) said about Hitler or Stalin

          • justasking :)

            @Varmik,

            ‘Having him extradited in a neutral country would be acceptable, but extraditing an Azeri in Azerbaijan is the same as setting them free right away’

            And what ‘neutral country’ would you recommend? Why should they assume the cost of keeping him…to make Armenians happy?

            Come on now.
            ———

            ‘Hungary already knew how Azeri hates Armenians and Hungary knew the consequences of this act’

            No they didn’t…you just want to believe that, cause you’re pissed at what happened.

            Hey, I would be too, if I were you. I agree, the Azeri Government handling of this case, was nothing short of disgusting.

            What a fantastic message, to be giving the children of that country…it’s okay to murder people you hate…especially, if their ancestors, did a grave injustice to our people.

            I’d be pitying that country, not sending my blood pressure through the roof if I were you.
            ——-

            ‘Orban knew it would anger us and yet he still chose to do it’

            Sorry, but I don’t think your feelings were at the forefront of Orbi’s mind during all of this.

            I’m pretty sure, he was more consumed with how Hungary/Hungarians could benefit from this transfer…and if you think about it…that IS his job as PM.
            ———

            ‘While “ataturk” may be considered a hero among Turks, a criminal remains criminal no matter the public perception’

            So?

            I think Kissinger should be tried for War Crimes…ain’t gonna happen. I ain’t gonna loose sleep over it either.
            ———-

            ‘Like H$tler was considered a hero among Germans during WW2, “ataturk” is considered a hero among Turks’

            Exactly…those men, set out to do ‘good’, for their people.

          • justasking :)

            @Tsayt,

            ‘Same was (still is) said about H$tler or St&lin’

            Exactly.

          • Varmik

            @justasking,

            ‘And what ‘neutral country’ would you recommend? Why should they assume the cost of keeping him…to make Armenians happy?’

            Anywhere would do except Azerbaijan. Send him to Armenia if money is such an issue :) , we would be glad to keep this criminal in prison with OUR money in Armenia, even though it doesn’t cost millions to feed a single man.

            ‘No they didn’t…you just want to believe that, cause you’re pissed at what happened.’

            I already posted a comment with the article that proves my point but it’s awaiting moderation and I’m too impatient, so I respond to you now.

            ‘I’m pretty sure, he was more consumed with how Hungary/Hungarians could benefit from this transfer…and if you think about it…that IS his job as PM.’

            How could Hungary benefit from that transfer? If anything it caused you harm, Armenia halted it’s diplomatic relations with Hungary and USA-Hungary relations are harmed too.

            ‘Exactly…those men, set out to do ‘good’, for their people.’

            ‘ataturk’ may have done good for Turks, but he didn’t do nothing for Hungarians. While it’s normal for Turks to like him, it’s not normal for Hungarians to like ‘ataturk’. That’s why this bust of ‘ataturk’ in Hungary is a mistake. ‘ataturk’ bust should stay in Turkey and not outside in the civilised world. BTW, we Armenians had Stalin statue in Yerevan, but we put it down and didn’t let it stand as soon as we got our independance from Soviet Union. Let this be an example for Hungary and other countries with ‘ataturk’ and Heydar Aliev busts.

          • justasking,..,

            @Varmik,

            ‘Send him to Armenia if money is such an issue, we would be glad to keep this criminal in prison with OUR money in Armenia, even though it doesn’t cost millions to feed a single man’

            No, you’d be spending millions, keeping him alive long enough to fill out his sentence.

            Besides, where’s your pity? I saw a picture of the guy, he has 1 eyebrow…that goes over BOTH eyes…yuk!!!
            ———

            ‘How could Hungary benefit from that transfer?’

            I believe I said…’he (Orbi) was more consumed with how Hungary/Hungarians could benefit from this transfer’.

            I doubt, the thought of it turning into a media circus, nor the subsequent backlash, even crossed his mind.
            ———-

            ‘USA-Hungary relations are harmed too’

            Oh, don’t worry about that…it’ll soon jump back, once Hungary has what the US wants…whatever that maybe…who knows, they might discover oil or something ;)

            Can you keep a secret? Come closer to the screen..I’m gonna whisper this…Americans are a fickel lot. Now, sit back…you didn’t hear it from me :)

            Besides, the US will have their hands full soon enough, by going to war with Iran…I heard Romney and Obama are running neck and neck.

            Can you say Kahaha-boom!!!
            ———–

            ‘That’s why this bust of ‘ataturk’ in Hungary is a mistake. ‘ataturk’ bust should stay in Turkey…’

            I’ll agree with you there, I posted a response I got a while back from Double, he explained to me why Hungary was even honoring the guy…you’ll have to scroll down to find it.
            ——–

            ‘but we put it down and didn’t let it stand’

            Yeah, I haven’t heard of that kind of passion from the Hungarian people since 56′.

          • Varmik

            @justasking,

            ‘No, you’d be spending millions, keeping him alive long enough to fill out his sentence.’

            I have a hard time imagining how it takes millions to keep a single man alive. All you need to pay is his food. The prison is already built and everything is in place. You just need to buy his food. Let’s do some basic maths:

            let’s say it costs 25$ per day, to feed a single man in prison(I even think it costs less).

            It makes 25$* 365 = 9125$/year

            Basically, it only costs less than 10 000$/year to keep him alive.

            Lets say, his life sentence is 50 years:

            9125$ * 50 = 456 250$ in total. That’s less than half a million dollars. Hardly the millions you were saying.

            ‘I doubt, the thought of it turning into a media circus, nor the subsequent backlash, even crossed his mind.’

            Well, the article I gave you earlier contains this statement that contradicts your opinion. Quoting :
            “The foreign ministry had forecast precisely what types of consequences this or the other decision may have. Nothing happened after our decision that we would not have reckoned with in advance,” he added.

            That means he knew all the consequences of his acts including Armenia’s halting diplomatic relations and all the media coverage that goes with it. Days before the transfer, Armenia warned Hungary to not extradite Safarov.
            Thats means they were aware of all that.

            In fact, Orban even knew that Safarov would be released. How I know that? He said it himself. He said that he expected Safarov to be in prison for only 1 month then he would be freed. That was in an article in “origo . hu “.

            If Orban was really naive, at least he should have condemned Azerbaijan for the pardoning and he would have asked Safarov back in Hungary. But, he didn’t say anything as he was aware of all that. His silence on the condemning and his awarness of the consequences of the extraditing leads me to believe he already knew all of that and yet he still chose to extradite him.

            ‘Hungary was lied to, hell, get mad at Orbi for being naive; but, keep your focus on the people who you should be mad at….and it ain’t Hungary.’

            Most Armenians aren’t mad at Hungarians. Some may have overreacted and acted racist, yea I agree with that. But majority of us are aware of the fact that Hungarians aren’t guilty, because it isn’t them that mad the decision. We are mad at the Hungarian government ONLY. Even the president of Armenia himself said to not burn Hungarian flag and not act racist towards Hungarians. And I agree with him. Our beefs are with Hungarian Government.

            I agree with all your other points.

          • justasking,,,,

            @Varmik,

            ‘Let’s do some basic maths:’

            Yes, lets…

            -Cost of food/day/prisoner…I’d say closer to $4/day for proper caloric intake, 3 squares a day.

            -Staffing for prison institution…?

            -Clothing for prisoners….?

            -Health Care for prisoners…?

            -Heating of prison facility….?

            -Up-keep of prison facility…?

            I heard it could be anywhere from $ 90,000-$ 140,000(max security/death-row inmates)/prisoner/year.
            ————-

            ‘The foreign ministry had forecast precisely what types of consequences this or the other decision may have. Nothing happened after our decision that we would not have reckoned with in advance,”

            Yes, the CONSEQUENSES of sending this putz home…nothing about knowing the guy would be freed and get a hero’s welcome home.
            ———–

            ‘That means he knew all the consequences of his acts including Armenia’s halting diplomatic relations’

            No, the diplomatic relations were ‘halted’, when the guy was set free and given a hero’s welcome. If the Azeri Government, had kept their promise, as they assured Hungary they would, by continuing his sentence…what possible complaint could Armenia have had?
            ————

            ‘Days before the transfer, Armenia warned Hungary to not extradite Safarov. Thats means they were aware of all that.’

            Did they tell Hungary what was up, or did they simply say…’we object to this transfer’?
            ————

            ‘He said that he expected Safarov to be in prison for only 1 month then he would be freed. That was in an article in “origo . hu “’

            If you could direct me towards this article, I’d like to read it.
            ———

            ‘at least he should have condemned Azerbaijan for the pardoning’

            I agree with you here…Orbi should have screamed his outrage (whether he felt it or not) from the highest mountain.
            ————-

  • Tsayt

    “chimping out here”, besides the fact that this is not English, but we get the gist of it.

    Magyar, you would be treated with more respect if you stop lying, most of all to yourself, (unless your the fickle type) that you had any so-called sympathies towards the Armenians to start with. With the F#%? did you expect the Armenian reaction would be towards an open Hungarian attack against not only Armenia but Armenians as a nation.

    Your fickle sensitivities would be served better if you stopped and realized that one cannot get away with insulting the national honour of another nation, at an official capacity at that!! if you cannot bring your head around this principal than you should question your own sense of national pride, if there any hint of it in your blood.

    What did you expect, a F#?@in love affair after such an anti-Armenian attack ? who do you think you are?

  • Shadow

    Can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not, but your guess (blood on his hands) is the most likely theory.

    • justasking!!!

      @Shadow,

      ‘Can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not…’

      Yes, I was being sarcastic in my response to a poster concluding that the red paint being used would automatically make the perpetrator a ‘post-commie’.

      As for my comment of blood being on Atatürk hands…I guess that would depend on your nationality/point of view.

      If I was a Turk, I would say he did what he had to do, to secure a safe country for his people. If I was Armenian, obviously I’d be of the opinion Atatürk was the Devil in reincarnate.

      I’ll be honest with you, my knowledge of Armenia(s) is quite limited, including, unfortunatly, my knowledge of your peoples H@locaust.

      I would say Atatürk to you, would be our Trianon…Turks response equal to that of the Slovaks and Romanians towards us…being a good thing. So in that respect, I can empathize with you.

      For what it’s worth, I’m sorry for what happened to your people, and hope your family was not directly affected.

      • justasking :)

        sorry..should read..’it’ being a good thing.

        • Shadow

          Yes, I thought so. Sorry this didn’t reply to your actual comment.

          “I guess that would depend on your nationality/point of view.”

          Same can be said of Nazis and Hitler.

          It’s important you know why Ataturk is considered a criminal by Armenians.

          To say that he created a “safe country for his people” ignores the suffering he caused the Armenians.

          To be clear, Ataturk isn’t technically responsible for the Armenian Genocide. I don’t know where the editor got that idea from. Talaat Pasha is the Turkish Hitler.

          Although he didn’t found modern genocide, he founded modern genocide denial.

          After the Genocide was commited, he did everything he could to make sure turkey did not have to be punished in anyway and to cover the event up completely.

          And it did not stop there. He wanted all of Armenia to become turkey. Our ancient homeland exists only in our history right now. It’s such a curse, when ever we want to feel pride, we must also feel pain. The great Mt. Ararat, the symbol of all of Armenia and pride of all Armenians.. was taken by turkish greed. The mountain, so close, yet technicly not even there. The turks practicly taunt and deny us of our right to our own culture. Can you imagine such an existance?

          And to think, most people who read up on Ataturk will consider him a hero. Don’t ever believe any of it. His famous “peace” quote is as big of a lie as his Republic.

          If you read this, thank you for your time and for your interest. I do not hate or blame the Hungarian people for Safarov’s release or Ataturk’s bust. The blame clearly lies on the influence of turkey and azeribaijan and the corruption of Hungarian individuals. I hope one day we can become friends again.

          • ///justasking

            @Shadow,

            ‘To be clear, Ataturk isn’t technically responsible for the Armenian G#nocide…Talaat Pasha is the Turkish H$tler’

            So, would it be safe to say, that Ataturk created the environment of Turkish nationalism, that created individuals like this Pasha guy, who unfortunatly took it too far?
            ————

            ‘The turks practicly taunt and deny us of our right to our own culture. Can you imagine such an existance?’

            I can’t…but, I bet a P^lestinian can.
            ——–

            ‘And to think, most people who read up on Ataturk will consider him a hero’

            Oh, I would’nt say that…to the Turkish people maybe. Anybody, not directly effected by him, would simply consider him a person of interest.

            When I read up on Ataturk (sorry, I had to do with wiki), I automatically assumed, especially, after reading how the Soviets handed the Armenians over on a silver platter, that all was not going to be warm and fuzzy for everybody.

            Somebody, was going to have to pay the price, unfortunately, for his dream.
            ————

            ‘If you read this, thank you for your time and for your interest’

            No, don’t thank me…I simply read more up on the guy, because of the reaction that I was seeing here on poli.hu, and did not understand the back ground for it.

            I thank-YOU, for taking the time to walk me through it…I’m always interested in hearing all sides.
            ——-

            ‘The blame clearly lies on the influence of turkey and azeribaijan and the corruption of Hungarian individuals’

            You basically just summed up global politics…influence and corruption.

            Sadly, I doubt you could name me a country immune to that.

          • Shadow

            Yes, that would be very accurate.
            ————
            I guess.
            ————
            Sadly no. Most people who look at Ataturk will consider him a hero.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RfCGap0Pic

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HRH_QEII_HandWriting_Signature.jpg

            Even the president of Greece in Ataturk’s time had friendly feelings toward him (though Greece currently hates him).

            People just were so happy to believe turkey was going to become a big democratic state with this likable leader, they actually wanted to forget about the Armenian Genocide. SOmetimes I think some world leaders hope that the turkish mindset “Armenians deserved it” is true so they feel better about forgetting it.
            ————
            My pleasure, I’m always happy to answer questions for people about this topic.
            ————
            Sadly in some countries, like Turkey and Azerbaijan, government opinion and public opinion are the same.

            You may not notice with the case of Ataturk because it’s understandable why his people would worship him, but on the azeri side, things become more obvious.

            Heydar Aliyev is worshipped in a similar manner by his people, to the point where it’s practicly a religion.

            But unlike Ataturk, there is little reason for them to like him. He tried to take over Armenia and commit a genocide against the Armenian people and failed miserably and consequently lost occupied land, he made their country dependent on a non-renewable resource (oil) and he ordered Azeri citizens to be stationed in harms way so their deathes could be used to make Armenians look like aggressors.

            But azeris aren’t taught this. They are taught to view him as their ultimate hero. And it is through this, that we can see Ataturk and Aliyev have found out how to extend their dictatorships beyond their deathes, by using nationalism to control their people, which has been very effective.

          • justasking,,,,

            @Shadow,

            Hi there…

            ‘Most people who look at Ataturk will consider him a hero’

            Okay well, maybe on that side of the world; but, trust me, anywhere else, he’d simply be considered ‘a person of interest’, if they were to stumble across his name, and decided to find out what he was about.
            ——–

            ‘SOmetimes I think some world leaders hope that the turkish mindset “Armenians deserved it” is true so they feel better’

            I don’t know about that…no sane person, feels harm towards a fellow human being is ‘deserved’

            Mind you, these same ‘world leaders’, allow the worlds longest Military Occupation (on P@lestinian land) to continues and turn a blind eye…how does one explain that?
            ——-

            ‘Sadly in some countries, like Turkey and Azerbaijan, government opinion and public opinion are the same’

            Well, if that’s the case, doesn’t say much for them as a ‘civil society’.
            ———

            ‘They are taught to view him as their ultimate hero’

            I tend to pity people who don’t question anything and everything…

  • Varmik

    Hungary should stop offending us Armenians. “Ataturk” is ennemy of Armenians. Those who honor him are our ennemies.

  • Freedom1

    Ataturk does not deserve respect.

    Illegal occupiers?

    Who the Greeks and Armenians who were native to much of modern day Turkey? The Turks are the only illegal occupiers.

  • MagyarFiu

    @Tsayst and Shadow

    I am Hungarian and I am pleased to see that most of my fellow Hungarians on this page have no problem with the Statue of Ataturk being damaged.

    If both of you guys are in fact Armenians I ask you please dont be negative towards Hungarians remember our countries have a good history and try to see that many Hungarians here have tried to show sympathy regarding the unfortunate release and celebration of Safarov.
    Tsayst if you are Hye no us Hungarians are not Turks most of us by majority dont affiliate ourselves with Turks also if you see some Hungarians being negative to Armenians please realise that many are just reacting to the already negative commentary that many Armenians have directed towards Hungary and realise this extradition waqs done by certain administration not the Hungarian people and in fact your own President asked you to realise this also.
    As I said Im Hungarian and I have been supportive of Armenians in this case and I would prefer our nations as people eventually get back to having good relations.
    If you guys are actually Azeri’s trying to provoke Hungarians to be hostile towards Armenians or ither enemies of Hungary such as anti Hungarian Romanians or Slovaks then I have nothing to say to you but go away but if you guys are Hye please know most of us Hungarians are not against you and the few who have said anything negative are just reacting to hearing negative things said about Hungarians please remember Hungarian people did not give there consent or blessings regarding Safarov in fact most Hungarians are sorry to you for how these events developed.

    • justasking :)

      @MagyarFiu,

      ‘I am pleased to see that most of my fellow Hungarians on this page have no problem with the Statue of Ataturk being damaged’

      What is with you people? I have a problem with public property being damaged! Better yet…give me your address, and I’ll throw paint (you can pick the colour) all over the inside of your house, and we’ll see how supporting you are then.

      If people want to protest a statue, building or whatever…hold midnight vigil, send a petition with thousands of signatures on it to your local MP.

      Leave public property alone….vandalism is not a birthright people!!!!

      • Magyar

        Exactly, at least Jobbik vigilantes did not damage any public property.

        • justasking :)

          @Magyar,

          ‘Exactly, at least Jobbik vigilantes did not damage any public property’

          I would’nt get to excited…both actions are considered crimes.

        • MagyarViking

          Magyar says:
          October 9, 2012 at 6:28 pm

          Exactly, at least Jobbik vigilantes did not damage any public property.

          Now you are lying again, ‘maygar’
          You have yourself published a video on a middle-aged man in typical Magyar Garda uniform vandalising a publich statue in Slovakia, to after the crime flee over the border to Hungary in his luxury Mercedes

          Public property in Slovakia is still public property

          And as a fact I know a few (previous) “Jobbik”-members who been part in vandalising the Soviet WWII monument
          The repairs of that monument is paid by Hungarian Tax Payers, not by Mr Put In

          The difference is just that “Jobbik” is not public about what they damage

          * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

          • Magyar

            “And as a fact I know a few (previous) “Jobbik”-members ”
            previous?

            “You have yourself published a video on a middle-aged man in typical Magyar Garda uniform ”
            Its debatable whether he was Gárda or not.

          • Viking

            Magyar says:
            October 9, 2012 at 7:33 pm

            Its debatable whether he was Gárda or not

            If it looks like a Garda member, walks like a Garda member, acts like a Garda member…then he should be made An Honorary Garda Member if he is not already a member

            Yes, those previous “Jobbik”-members got tired of Vona, then they see no real possibility for “Jobbik” to grow if it will stick with the anti-Roma/J*daism demagoguery instead of pursuing more realistic policies of trying to develop Hungary

            There is a reason why Vona been drinking whiskey in my home and why I knew about the forming of Magyar Garda over 6 months before it happened
            But that is some times ago and now these people are more interested in Fidesz, which they feel has more power to pursue their policies

            Personal I believe in a split of Fidesz and the disappearance of KDNP, where “Jobbik” takes some part of KDNPs ideology, but that probably mean that “Jobbik” will also split
            Nothing of this will probably happen before the election 2014, more likely afterwards, when the blame is to be shifted/portioned out both in Fidesz and “Jobbik”

            * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

  • MagyarViking

    MagyarFiu says:
    October 9, 2012 at 11:58 am

    @Tsayst and Shadow

    I am Hungarian and I am pleased to see that most of my fellow Hungarians on this page have no problem with the Statue of Ataturk being damaged

    Is this ‘Statue Damaging’ some typical Hungarian Thing, or we should blame the weather?

    Given the history of digging up the corpse of dead Hungarian leaders and stealing their skulls, I suppose this Statue-fetishism is rather harmless…

    * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

  • Independent

    The article has definite pro-armenian bias, not even the piece of information it gives, but the way it is written, the color of the language… Erik D’Amatoyan?

  • Independent

    MagyarFui, let me please grant you a one-way ticket to Yerevan, man you shouldn’t deprive yourself from a pleasure of unifying with your beloved people and country!

  • esquimo

    vandalism against sculptures. Here is one that wasn’t mentioned on this forum: brutal, rude, and pornographic abuse of one of the greatest composer of Hungary: Zoltan Kodaly. I would like to hear reactions to this despicable act. Kodaly wasn’t a political figure, but one of the greatest Hungarian patriot.

  • Varmik

    @justasking,

    ‘And what ‘neutral country’ would you recommend? Why should they assume the cost of keeping him…to make Armenians happy?’

    Anywhere would do except Azerbaijan. Send him to Armenia if money is such an issue :), we would be glad to keep this criminal in prison with OUR money in Armenia, even though it doesn’t cost millions to feed a single man.

    ‘No they didn’t…you just want to believe that, cause you’re pissed at what happened.’

    You should read the article in this link then:
    http://asbarez.com/105339/hungary-aware-of-backlash-before-safarov-release/

    ‘I’m pretty sure, he was more consumed with how Hungary/Hungarians could benefit from this transfer…and if you think about it…that IS his job as PM.’

    How could Hungary benefit from that transfer? If anything it caused you harm, Armenia halted it’s diplomatic relations with Hungary and USA-Hungary relations are harmed too according to the article in this link:

    http://asbarez.com/105760/hungary-claims-%E2%80%98serious%E2%80%99-harm-to-u-s-ties-from-safarov-case/

    ‘Exactly…those men, set out to do ‘good’, for their people.’

    ‘ataturk’ may have done good for Turks, but he didn’t do nothing for Hungarians. While it’s normal for Turks to like him, it’s not normal for Hungarians to like ‘ataturk’. That’s why this bust of ‘ataturk’ in Hungary is a mistake. ‘ataturk’ bust should stay in Turkey and not outside in the civilised world. BTW, we Armenians had Stalin statue in Yerevan, but we put it down and didn’t let it stand as soon as we got our independance from Soviet Union. Let this be an example for Hungary and other countries with ‘ataturk’ and Heydar Aliev busts.

    • justasking, aka JA

      @Varmik,

      ‘You should read the article in this link then’

      I did, and it doesn’t say anything to support the theory, that Orbi knew they would release the guy, let alone give him a hero’s welcome.

      Hungary was lied to, hell, get mad at Orbi for being naive; but, keep your focus on the people who you should be mad at….and it ain’t Hungary.
      ——–

  • Observer

    I wonder whether this “Magyar” is an exceptional idiot or there are many of those in Hungary.
    How can a “Hungarian” propagate Turanism? How can you live in West and say I want to be with East? It is like sitting in Greenland and waiting for the penguins to show up.
    And then giving some primitive economical arguments. Do you really think that the business in the East, e.g. billionaires in Japan and China really give a shit about Hungarian ancestors coming from Asia some 15 centuries ago?
    This all doesn’t make sense, so the conclusion is that Turanism is more of an emotional thing for you, and therefore there must be some Turk in you.
    And don’t be surprised when Armenians here are bashing you for your Turnanism, because one of the pages in Turanism says that Armenian should be wiped out from the map, as it stands in their way.

    • Magyar

      If you are too stupid to understand then I feel so sorry for you.

      But try reading Vona’s “Turanism instead of the Euro-Atlantic allience”.

      FYI, Hungary is the Westernmost Eastern nation, a chain of peoples that stretch from Hungary, to Bulgaria, all the way to the Pacific Ocean.

      There is no Turk in me, but there might be a lot in you, since you are an Armenian, and a stupid one at that.

      You should really look at Kurultaj, and all those Hungarian Turanists, if you think it is just me, then you are wrong, very wrong.

    • Californicus

      “How can you live in West and say I want to be with East?”

      It’s a replacement binky; hard to trade in an EU schlong without having another schlong to suck off of.

  • MagyarFiu

    Just Asking I see your point but im not promoting vandalism as such more to the point I am wondering why in the hell a bust of Attaturk was erected in Hungary and if certain people were indicating that he has blood on his hands by colouring the statue red I cant disagree with there sentiments. If this statue is a recent act of Hungarians Turanits trying to kiss ass of the Turks then yes Im against it.
    @Independent Im Hungarian I dont need your tickets nor your advice and from your comment so far, I doubt you know very much about whats going on anyway.

    “FYI, Hungary is the Westernmost Eastern nation, a chain of peoples that stretch from Hungary, to Bulgaria, all the way to the Pacific Ocean.”

    What a load of crap…yes unfortunatly there are many naive and unthinking Hungarians that share “Magyar” thoughts … but fortunatly they are not a majority I only hope they never will be otherwise Hungary can kiss her own ass goodbye.
    Magyar that idea is completly delusional and the Jobbik Manifsto is naive and equally delusional… none of those Eastern countries give that much chit about Hungary… they would only use us to get there own needs met and getting into Europe… most of those Turkic countries are Muslim and the Islamic culture at large will not and cannot ever blend harmoniously within Europe …we are already seeing much evidence of that please open your eyes to try see past such romantic naive delusions.

    • Varmik

      I agree with you. Hungarians should be proud of who they are. Your place is in Europe now and you are an European country like it or not.

      If you support Turanism as an Hungarian then your place is not Europe, you must leave Europe. But if you consider yourself European then you must forget about Turanism. You can be proud of your turkic roots, I have no problem with that. But Turanism minded people do not belong to Europe.

      Fortunately, I assume majority of Hungarians do not support Turanism. That is good, it means you belong in Europe.

      • Magyar

        Who the hell are you to tell us whether we belong in Europe or not?

        Armenia is barely European, so who are you to talk?

        • Varmik

          Agree or disagree with what I said, but stop with your ad hominem non-sense. It’s starting to get frustrating.

          BTW, Armenians are culturally Europeans.

    • justasking,..,

      @MagyarFiu,

      ‘more to the point I am wondering why in the hell a bust of Attaturk was erected in Hungary’

      Ask, and you shall receive….

      ——-

      DoubleH63 says:
      September 25, 2012 at 4:14 am
      @JA aka justasking

      ”Can anybody tell me why, his statue even being erected in Hungary?”

      Well, this could be another ugly one. We will see tomorrow if there will be a statue at all. [Actually, it is more about a square than a statue… but the statue will be part of the square.]

      As the story goes, back in May a Zsidesz-KDNP council member from this BP district visited the sister district in Istanbul. He got all exited, and as a gesture to the Turks, he told them that they would name this – at the moment unnamed – square after Atatürk in the district. The Turks got all exited too and decided to donate a statue for the square.
      At a Council meeting in May most of the members thought it to be a good idea and it was voted for by the council; mostly Zsidesz-KDNP members (supported by Jobbik and LMP members and opposed by MSZP members).

      Now after the axe murderer thing, and all the Armenians (inside and outside of Hungary) pissed; the guy whose idea was the whole thing in the first place asked the mayor of the district (MSZP) to re-visit the previous decision (there will be another council meeting tomorrow).
      In the meantime everybody is pissed off now.
      The mayor, because the statue is already here and a big Turkish delegation is coming for the September 29th celebration;
      The Turkish Ambassador, because nobody consulted with them about this and saying that the square is to small to be named after such great man as Atatürk and the Armenians because they look upon Atatürk as a bad man.

      So, it should be another fun day in Hungary!

  • MagyarFiu

    Varmik please know something us Hungarians do not have Turkic roots.
    At most we absorbed some Turkic peoples and at times lived in alliances with certain Turkic tribes such as Khazars and Bulgars but as our language is not Turkic neither are our roots nor our blood.
    Genetically we are predominantly European and probably more European than the Balkan people south of us.
    Varmik in fact we are one of the oldest established Christian European Nation state’s within our region of Europe.
    When you hear some Turanistic Hungarians (thankfully a minority) trying to say we are Turanian or non European please understand they are delusional with romantic notions… all serious logical evidence is against them.

    • Varmik

      That’s good to know :)

  • Varmik

    That’s good to know :)

    • Anonymous

      Look, lets’ get serious and erect a statue to Mickey Mouse, Daffy Duck and Daisy and place them somewhere in Hungary. Why not – other clowns and animals have statues throughout the world but none exist in Hungary? No, we should not exclude this great and progressive country from this distinction. Better these than those for a smile is better than a tear!

  • DoubleH63

    @justasking

    I am sorry; I was too lazy to update you on the update. They reversed on their decision. So it indeed ended up being an Atatürk Square with a statue (bust) of him red paint on it now. This must be the national sport in Hungary nowadays. The latest is yellow paint on Antall.

    • ///justasking

      @Double,

      ‘This must be the national sport in Hungary nowadays. The latest is yellow paint on Antall’

      Not a national sport exactly…more like a ‘flavour of the month’ if you will.

      I heard, once they get through the primary colours, they’ll be moving on to the secondary, and finally the complimentary ones…geez, I hope Hungary has enough controversial statues to accommodate them all!

      PS: Shame on you for leaving me hanging…and I thought we were friends!

  • Viking

    ///justasking says:
    October 10, 2012 at 8:10 am

    I hope Hungary has enough controversial statues to accommodate them all!

    That is why Fidesz is erecting Horthy-statues all over the country, as objects for aggressions in a national trauma handling schema

    Paint has been chosen then it is easier washable than if people would use sledgehammers
    And we may not forget the obvious risk involved when giving sledgehammers to non-professionals

    They could hit their fingers and drop the hammers on their feet
    Fidesz always need to think about people’s safety first and the cost for Public Health is already too expensive

    * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

    • justasking

      @Viking,

      ‘That is why Fidesz is erecting Horthy-statues all over the country, as objects for aggressions in a national trauma handling schema’

      Oh…here I thought it was part of their ‘job creation’ plan. I really should pay more attention.
      ——–

      ‘Fidesz always need to think about people’s safety first and the cost for Public Health is already too expensive’

      Hey, I’m all for being proactive, rather than reactive…forward thinking on their part.
      ——-

      Hey, maybe we should sponsor a few Gyurcsány busts to be created and scattered across Hungary…it back and watch the sparks fly?

  • Magyar

    Hey Armenians

    Hungarian intellectuals apologized to the Armenians before Gourgen Margaryan grave
    -http://armenpress.am/eng/news/695884/hungarian-intellectuals-apologized-to-armenians-before-gurgen-margaryan-grave.html

    Bring on the Hungary bashing…

    • Tsayt

      Nothing less than full apology from the Hungarian government to Armenia will save Hungary’s face for the despicable act of insulting an entire nation.

      • Magyar

        Tsayt, if it makes you feel better, Romanians have erected statues of mass murderes in Hungarian majority (and minority) cities in Transylvania.

        One example is the statue of Avram Iancu, who murdered civilians including gypsies.

        So dont worry, you are not the only ones.
        We have been offended so many times that it nowadays seems the norm.

        • Magyar

          Civilians including women and children*

          No idea why I said gypsies….

      • Tsayt

        Magyar, I was not referring to the Ataturk monument. You talked about Hungarian intellectuals apologizing to the Armenians. It was not the “intellectuals” of Hungary that cut a sinister deal with the Az. dictator to send the killer back home, it was the Hungarian government. and as such it is incumbent on the Orban government to officially apologize for his actions. You should keep track of what you’re saying…so that your responses wpuld actually make sense. I, personally don’t give a hoot what dictator’s bust your government chooses to display. I live in Canada, here we honour great men of the past, such as Gandhi, Kennedy, de Gaulle etc… your government honours a genocidal dictator, it is your business in how to choose to display your own your values.

        • Magyar

          Like I already said, I did not vote the Fidesz goverment.

          Do I support the cold blooded axing of an Armenian while he was sleeping? No, I don’t wish that on anybody.

          Your beef is not with me, but with our leaders. Feel free to continue to put words into my mouth if you wish.

          • Tsayt

            You’re right my “beef” is with your government, and I’m not putting words in your mouth, you were the one talking about the Romanian monuments.

            Anyways, happy Turan dreaming…

          • Magyar

            Hungarian economy depended a lot on exports to the West.

            Demands in the West fell, so did our economy.
            Thus we need new, growing markets, which are Asian, especially Central Asian countries and the Caucasus.

            Take it as you will, but I see nothing wrong with it.

            Am I an anti-Armenian for saying this?

        • justasking, aka JA

          @Tsayt,

          ‘it was the Hungarian government. and as such it is incumbent on the Orban government to officially apologize for his actions’

          Why should he? Did Hungary set this killer free? Did Hungary give him a hero’s welcome home, a promotion, and an apartment? No!

          So, what exactly, should Hungary be apologizing for..being duped?
          ——-

          ‘I live in Canada, here we honour great men of the past, such as Gandhi, Kennedy, de Gaulle etc’

          As a fellow Canadian…give it up.

          First off, those aren’t even men of Canadian history… secondly, Canada was built on immigrants.

          Apples VS apples, not apples VS oranges.

          Gandhi never acknowledged, nor accepted Pakistan as a sovereign country….Kennedy, well he’s not exactly a ‘morally upstanding citizen’ if you ask me. As for ‘de Gaulle’…really? You’re suggesting to a Hungarian, a Frenchmen as a role-model…are you nuts?
          —-

          ‘ your government honours a genocidal dictator’

          And…which one would that be?

  • olga

    @ Varmik

    “The European Organisation for Probation” website is very long and involved with pros and cons for transferring prisoners to their homeland; here is just one paragraph that may have contributed to Orban’s decision and it answers your calculation about costs of keeping a prisoner:

    “Fromm the point of view of participating states, prisoner transfer brings various benefits. For one thing, it can reduce prison overcrowding. For example, some European countries report a prison population composed of up to 44% foreign national prisoners. Having a large population of foreign national prisoners causes administrative problems for prison systems. As a result, the average cost of incarcerating foreign national prisoners is usually far higher than that of imprisoning their own nationals. The transfer of foreign nationals can therefore ease the financial demands on prison systems; it can also ease prison tensions as cultural differences amongst the prison population can cause hostility and even violence.”

    There may have been more advantages financially as you alleged but unless someone was privy to the negotiations that went on behind closed doors with the FIDESZ brass and the Azeri gov’t, it cannot be proven, so it makes sense to rely on the European Parliament’s decision to absolve Hungary of any responsibility.

    Give me one reason why a neutral country would want this low life scum serve his sentence in its prison system?

    • Tsayt

      Olga; respect for Armenia and Armenians. How’s that for your one good reason why the scum should not have given back to Baku. Especially knowing full well A) the hostility Az. had against Arm. B) the outcome of that killer’s release to Baku.

  • olga

    @ Tsayt

    I totally understand how you feel and I am sure if I were you I would feel the same way. That’s why we have an system of decision makers who are supposed to be objective and draw up Agreements that unfortunately backfired in this case (I wonder how many Agreements turned out to be such a disaster as this one)

    The people I feel most sorry for in this tragedy is the victim’s family – all kinds of political venom has boiled to the surface but at the end of the day, it’s the victim’s family that will no longer have him around in their lives and have to deal with the horrific way their loved one died

    The Strasbourg Treaty was drafted in the 80’s and its sole purpose was to transfer prisoners from the country where the crime was committed and the convict subsequently jailed and her/his homeland; sending the prisoner to the victim’s homeland was not a consideration. Not that I would shed a lot of tears if it happened, but please be reasonable – what Democracy in this world would send Safarov back to Armenia?

  • Tsayt

    Olga, no one is suggesting that Safarov should have sent to Armenia. But in this case a special consideration should have been applied by Hungary. A lot has been said about the Strasbourg Treaty to the detriment of all reason and sanity. It was a self-serving decision by Orban to agree with Aliyev to send the killer home. Let’s face it this is not a matter of a foreign killer serving his sentence in your country, this is a case of a Hungarian leader satisfying a long-held and long-lobbied efforts by Azerbaijan. You can convince yourself in thinking that this was a simple case of a foreign convict being returned to his country. I, along with many others, believe it is much more than that.

  • MagyarFiu

    @Tsayt
    You are right Orban should make that apology to Armenia
    but although I understand Armenians annoyance about this subject I believe as Armenians president said to those Flagburners that Armenians shouldnt direct there anger at the people and nation of Hungary at large.
    Many Hungarian people have made quite a lot of effort to express their appologies and solidarity with Armenians about this issue but even I someone who is sorry about this turn of events and a Hungarian who has Armenian friends and connections have observed some Armenina going too far with their negativity and continuously using internet forums etc to vent their anger at not just Hun Government but Hungary and Hungarians at large I respect Sargisyan Arm President for telling Armenians not to do this.
    Anyway my point is when someone has a bad day at work because they have an annoying boss kicking their dog does not solve anything same thing blaming Hungarians for actions of handfull of people in power in certain administration is also pointless and of course will eventually only bring returned hostility.
    You make a reasonable point about appology from Primeminister as a Hungraian I agree with you but Governments and Politicians do not always do what people believe is right in all situations.

    Tsayt is it true that the Armenian Government itself doesnt recognise Gharabagh ?

    • Tsayt

      It is true that Armenia has not officially recognized Karabakh. This is so because Armenia is trying to give diplomacy a chance to come to a solution. If I may, there are three principals that need to be addressed. A) non-use of force to solve this issue, B) the right to self determination of a national group, and C) inviolability of territorial integrity.

      B and C are the contentious points. Azerbaijan regards C as trumping B, and Armenia the reverse. The problem is also legal in the sense that Armenians regard the dissolution of USSR as giving Azerbaijan illegitimate claim over Karabakh. A) because Karabakh was not even part of the initial borders of Soviet Azerbaijan, Stalin arbitrarily gave it to Az. in 1923 to appease Az’s Turkic cousin, Turkey. B) Karabakh voted to secede from Azerbaijan in 1988 before the USSR ceased to exist.

  • olga

    @ Tsayt

    Sorry, it was not you who suggested returning Safarov to Armenia but I was responding to:

    “Anywhere would do except Azerbaijan. Send him to Armenia if money is such an issue :) , we would be glad to keep this criminal in prison with OUR money in Armenia, even though it doesn’t cost millions to feed a single man.”

    Now I see the poster was not you nor was he even serious about returning Safarov to Armenia so please ignore that part of my response.

    I have to ask you the same question I asked spectator whose feelings towards Orban and FIDESZ appear to be the same as your feelings towards Safarov, but why do you think the European Parliament absolved Hungary of any responsibility?

    BTW, no doubt an apology is owed to the Armenian people but most importantly to the victim’s family.

    BTW, it says a lot about a country’s government when it celebrates a convicted murderer’s decision to hack a sleeping man to death with an ax. Certainly gives the world the impression how Azerbaijan defines bravery and honour

    • esolesek

      Armenian revenge is stale, but this guy should’ve been executed by Hungary, and certainly not deported to freedom. Just remember, Safarov came from a war zone. He didnt attack any other race of people. All that proves is the blowback of wars that leaders with big egos decide to start.

  • olga

    @ Tsyt

    I will try not to use “BTW” every second – I must read over my own postings before I submit them but I forgot to respond to:

    re: “Olga; respect for Armenia and Armenians. How’s that for your one good reason why the scum should not have given back to Baku”

    The Strasbourg Agreement is all about returning people to serve their sentence in their homeland so there was no other option in this particular case as to the location of the transfer. Again, if the Hungarian government was fully aware of the outcome then why would the European Parliament not partially attach blame to Hungary?

    Hindsight is always 20/20 so I would like to think that when the transfer was arranged, Orban definitely thought of the advantages to Hungary but meant no disrespect to Armenia.

    • Viking

      olga says:
      October 12, 2012 at 3:25 pm

      I would like to think that when the transfer was arranged, Orban definitely thought of the advantages to Hungary but meant no disrespect to Armenia

      You have insight in The Mind of PimpMaster Whorban?
      Impressing!

      Beats many of us others, including ‘leto’

      * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

    • Tsayt

      olga, the Strasbourg Agreement is not being criticized, at least not by me. As I have tried to explain before Orban’s decision was based on certain quid-pro-quo with Azerbaijan. You and Hungarians will know soon what Hungary got out of this criminal’s release. To say he “meant no disrespect to Armenia” is a total self-deception. It boils down to this, and I repeat, Orban knowing that any transfer of the killer would result in his immediate freedom. His exact words were: ” they (Azeris) can come up with ‘health’-related reasons to release him from prison in Baku after two months or so”. His only regret was that the Azeris released him right away.

      You know what, to be fair, if Orban’s actions is really about the national interests of Hungary it is not up to me or anyone else to blame his actions. On the other hand Armenia does not have to put up with this and breaking the diplomatic ties therefore becomes the correct response. It is therefore in the national interests of Armenia that dictates Hungary being in the enemy camp.

      Whatever benefits Hungary will receive from Azerbaijan due to the Safarov case means Hungary will also be counted upon to align its foreign policies with the Azeris, therefore also the Turkish camp. We can expect in future EU parliamentary votes Hungary will vote with the Azeri side as well.

      Hungary has made a choice, so let’s not take each other for fools.

      • Leto مؤدّب

        If you do want to be “in the enemy camp”, that’s fine with me.
        However may I ask that please don’t jump to conclusions that “Hungary will vote with the Azeri side” or anything like that? Hungary will only keep pursuing her national interest and that’s it. If Armenia’s national interest is to break diplomatic ties with Hungary then you’re welcome to do that. I disagree but that’s only my opinion.

        “Hungary has made a choice”

        How funny sulking. :)

        Ceterum censeo MSZP delendum est.

        • Tsayt

          The Hungarian government has lowered its proverbial pants to the Azeris. Now Hungary has no control on what they \invite\ in.

          no sulking booboo just telling the way it is.

  • olga

    @ Viking

    re: “You have insight in The Mind of PimpMaster Whorban?
    Impressing!”

    No I don’t and neither do you. I actually formed that opinion for two reasons

    1. I want Hungary to look “favourable” in this horrible mess

    2. I have the backing of the European Parliament’s report

    You on the other hand are still traumatized by that ‘childhood leash” which was for your own safety and probably the norm in those days and can’t think straight :))

  • Elsbeth

    I want Hungary to look “favourable” in this horrible mess…try supporting the opposition.

  • Kevork

    @Olga
    Tsayt is correct in his assessment. Yes, the Strasbourg treaty I suspect was for the purpose of sending a criminal to his home country… to serve out his sentence… not to be released.

    In addition, the treaty makes certain assumptions and it is presumably for legitimate countries who respect the rule of law, not for illegitimate extremist dictatorships like Azerbaijan. This is like saying the terrorists that the US is holding in Guantanamo Bay should be sent back to the Al Qaeda camps of Afghanistan under the treaty of Strasbourg so they can “carry out their sentence”.

    The nature of Azerbaijan is no secret, the west keeps quiet about it so that the oil can flow without a hitch. Now the Hungarian government cannot play dumb and suggest that they did not know what the dictator of Azerbaijan would do, given their open hatred of Armenia.

    • Leto مؤدّب

      Armenia is not very different to Azerbaijan and you simply don’t have the high moral ground. Your country also celebrated a terrorist killer as a national hero in 2001.

      -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varoujan_Garabedian

      So it’s really high time you shut up at last after 6 weeks of constant drivelling.

      Ceterum censeo MSZP delendum est.

      • Tsayt

        Oh booboo, you do sound like a broken(badly)-record. Armenia is VERY different from Azerbaijan, and Armenia indeed HAS the high moral ground. Azerbaijan has anti-Armenian racism as their state policy. They, by glorifying, (promotion of rank, back 8 years’ wages, declaring him a national hero) this scum’s cowardly actions have declared a fair game the killing of any Armenian an Azeri can get his hands on.

        So leto, cut the crap and stop your falsifications of facts. Garabedian met the prime minister, big sh#t, and the latter was happy to see him, so what? All that BS about the Armenian government lobbying the French for Garabedian’s release is a big BS, first I’ve ever heard. This is probably an Azeri, or who knows maybe even someone like you, put that in wiki to level the laying field. BTW your reference in wiki is not confirmed, therefore very dubious.

        • Leto مؤدّب

          No, Armenia looks about the same as Azerbaijan in this respect and Armenia doesn’t have any kind of moral high ground when it comes to glorifying killers as national heroes.

          Garabedian met the prime minister who welcomed him as a hero and the mayor of Yerevan provided him with accommodation and work.
          Do you think it was an Azeri who reported this on Radio Free Europe? :D :D
          -http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1142396.html

          Ceterum censeo MSZP delendum est.

          • Tsayt

            You can either at least attempt to understand me or you can continue to be your regular obtuse self leto.

            No government official went to the airport with a medal of honour, putting Armenian flag on his shoulders. No girls lined up with flowers. No official pardoning. No promotion or money. The rferl article simply says he met the PM, and that the PM was happy to see him. You equate the two at the same level, you and the Azeris are welcome to do so.

            You really sound like an idiot when you mention about the Radio free article been written by an “Azeri”. Read my post again, the part that in wiki that’s dubious and full of BS is the part that says Armenia officially lobbied France to bring Garabedian to Armenia.

            This is what happened, if you are at all interested. First the French authorities pardoned Garabedian after 18years in jail. As a Lebanese citizen they were going to deport him to Beirut. He, Garabedian, requested to go to Armenia instead. Then, Armenia having received a request from the French authorities agreed to have him deported to Yerevan.

            I know this will not sit with your racist self, but those are the facts.

            Booboo it is high time you start standing upright, and join the rest of us.

          • Leto مؤدّب

            “and that the PM was happy to see him”

            The article says Prime Minister Andranik Markarian expressed his joy at Garabedian’s release. What a difference.

            ” No promotion”

            Maybe because he wasn’t an officer or something like that.

            ” or money”

            Unless you consider “accommodation and job” of no monetary value.

            You really sound like a (desperate) liar. First you tried to dismiss the Wikipedia page as “written by an Azeri” and now you try to play down the RFEL news report. :D

            I know this will not sit with your Armenian self but those are the facts.
            Incidentally, do you consider Armenians “a race”? ;)

            Ceterum censeo MSZP delendum est.

        • esolesek

          Lookl up the history of ASALA, and tell me how high-minded Armenians are. You perped bombings in France that were also claimed by Islamic Jihad. That’s just so pathetically stupid its almost hilarious.

  • Tsayt

    wow, I’m impressed. Bravo! It’s always good to “expose” yourself booboo.

    leto, how old are you? :-)

    • Leto مؤدّب

      I see I’ve finished you off, Armenian liar. :D

      Ceterum censeo MSZP delendum est.

      • Tsayt

        sure you did!

        …now go play with your toys.

  • Asadour

    Hey Moronic Leto,
    You Turko-Mongol Azeris of Central Asia love comparing apples to oranges to justify your low character and your lousy excuse for existing in the Caucasus on the Armenian lands you stole. Comparing Armenia to Azerbaijan is not only an insult to Armenia, it is an insult to all humanity. Your fake country of Azerbaijan is the lowest most despicable pseud-country in existence.

    You want to compare Safarov to Garabedian?
    Garabedian retaliated against the criminal Turkish government, and your hero Safarov committed cold blooded murder for the joy of it and to satisfy his hatred of Armenians.

    Garabedian’s family members were murdered in the Armenian genocide. Safarov claimed he witnessed his family die, yet in court was proven he was a liar and was in Turkey at the time.

    Garabedian served out his sentence for 17 years and the French agreed to let him go for good behavior. After criminal terrorist Safarov murdered an Armenian in his sleep and was arrested, he attacked Hungarian guards repeatedly.

    Garabedian did not murder on a mission of peace as a two-faced hypocritical terrorist like Safarov. Your Azeri Turko-Mongol-Tatar brutish lowlife of Central Asia violated the mission he was entrusted with by NATO, and committed a terrorist act in a NATO program which was supposed to be for the purpose of peace.

    Garabedian was not sent by the government of Armenia, nor did he have any connection to it. Garabedian did not get a military heroes welcome, given money and an apartment. Safarov was sent by the terrorist Azeri government and naturally committed a terrorist act, for which he was promoted by the same terrorist Azeri government after his release was purchased through bribes.

    You want me to go on?

    • Leto مؤدّب

      Garabedian is a killer who was responsible for the deaths of eight civilians and the injuries of 55 others. Garabedian got a civilian heroes’ welcome in Armenia and he was given an apartment and a job by the mayor of Yerevan. See the RFEL news report I linked to.

      Yes, Armenia and Azerbaijan are pretty much comparable. , Using a Hungarian idiom, “one is nineteen and the other one is twenty but one”.

      Ceterum censeo MSZP delendum est.

      • Asadour

        Is that all you got? Garabedian was never sponsored by any government and is irrelevant for political discussion – are you too dumb to know what this means? And what the hell is “civilian heroes welcome” – what a pathetic desperate statement. In your wildest dreams is Armenia comparable to a stupid fake country like “Azerbaijjan”. And the Hungarian idiom applies to an idiot like you more than anyone else. Now go put on your suicide vest and go do a jihad someplace.

        • Leto مؤدّب

          Garabedian’s case is absolutely relevant indeed, no matter how desperately you Armenians try to play it down. You also celebrated a common killer and rewarded him like Azeribaijan rewarded the axe killer.
          It seems this is how it goes there in the Caucasus.

          Ceterum censeo MSZP delendum est.

          • Anonymous

            Stop pretending to be Hungarian, you filthy Azeri animal! Only a disgusting animal Azeri talks about Garabedian OUT OF DESPERATION! And that is YOU.

          • Leto مؤدّب

            The truth must hurt you very much indeed. :)

            Ceterum censeo MSZP delendum est.

          • Anonymous

            No, the truth only hurts idiots like you. The truth helps us every way, the truth of culture, history, art, and everything else. Your country of made-up Azerbaijan is a FAKE and a FRAUD. Good luck with your moronic Islamo-Turkic Tatar propaganda.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4dPhbZ5TR8&feature=relmfu

            That day is coming when you Islamic savage monkeys of Central Asia will be sent back to where you came from.

        • esolesek

          You are such a hate-filled moron, its pathetic. Go get some oral sex, if anyone will have you. Armenia was in the wrong place at the wrong time, period, end of story. The people responsible are all dead, it’s been 100 years from now, and yet losers like you need to keep it going. I agree the Turkish govt should say something, but you’re just a pathetic supremacist, and let me give you a report from the USA, people here are getting tired of jews telling them what to do, and to do for this bs state of Israel, no matter how stupid muslims are. You can imagine how much smarter or genetically pure you are, but its just an illusion. You should just merge with Israel. REligion sucks, that’s why muslims killed you, just like christians killed almost everyone in the new world, and millions in Asia and africa, besides their own rotten countries. You are such a waste.

    • esolesek

      I didnt know anything about these cases, and after reading them, all I have to say is that the Caucuses are clearly populated with bloodthirsty idiots, but you know, we have the same in the USA, blacks mad at whites, hispanics mad at blacks, etc etc etc. The idiots choose to kill, and so you’re defending idiots.
      The Turkish govt of the 70s and 80s was not responsible for the genocide, but the ASALA hatemongers had to do it. This Azeri idiot should’ve been shot by a firing squad in Hungary, but that’s modern Europe for you, and he did come from a war zone, so it just proves that starting hate and war, just brings you more of both, so enjoy your life creating more hate.

  • Viking

    olga says:
    October 12, 2012 at 4:13 pm

    1. I want Hungary to look “favourable” in this horrible mess

    2. I have the backing of the European Parliament’s report

    1) How can PimpMaster Whorban looks good after He went against any professional advice His Civil Servant gave Him
    The outcome shows His Civil Servants were correct and not Him

    2) This part of the EP resolution is a indirect criticism of how PimpMaster Whorban handled the situation:
    “3. Considers that, while the presidential pardon granted to Mr Safarov complies with the letter of the Convention on the Transfer of Sentenced Persons, it runs contrary to the spirit of that international agreement, which was negotiated to allow the transfer of a person convicted on the territory of one state to serve the remainder of his or her sentence on the territory of another state;”
    (-http://news.am/eng/news/120931.html)

    So, even the EP admits that PimpMaster Whorban missed out on Paragraph 12 and legally Azerbaijan was correct in what they were doing – no international agreements *broken*

    * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

  • olga

    @ Tsayt, Varmik, Kevork and Viking

    Because the issues in your postings overlap , I would like to address some of them in one posting and as briefly as possible

    Re : “the Strasbourg Agreement is not being criticized, at least not by me.”

    The criticism was from me. For the third time, this is the Canadian version of Article 12:

    ARTICLE 12 – Pardon, Amnesty, Commutation “Unless the transferring and the receiving States agree otherwise, the transferring State alone may grant pardon, amnesty, or commutation of the sentence in accordance with its constitution or other laws.”

    I did not read the complete Canadian Treaty so hopefully there is not another Article negating # 12 but if these were the terms in Article 12 of the Strasbourg Agreement, the Azeri government could not have issued the following statement:

    “The extradition and the pardoning of Azerbaijani army officer Ramil Safarov was carried out on the legal basis of the Article 12 of the Convention on the Transfer of Sentenced People, the Constitution of the Republic of Azerbaijan, norms and principles of international law”

    If you could set aside all the ancient history including the horrific tragedy of the Armenian genocide, the facts boil down to:

    1.The Hungarian Courts in 2006 convicted Safarov of Margaryan’s brutal cowardly murder and sentenced him to life imprisonment
    2.in 2012 the Hungarian government agreed to transfer Safarov to serve his remaining sentence in his homeland of Azerbaijan as per the terms of the Strasbourg Treaty

    We all know about the shameful outcome along with the volumes written on the Armenian – Azeri conflict but at the end of the day it is not history nor the court of public opinion that should be relied upon for attaching blame; accordingly the European Parliament vehemently condemns Safarov’s pardon and relieves Hungary from any responsibility in the matter.

    When I wrote that I would like to see Hungary in a “favourable light” I was thinking of Hungary being on trial for its share in this awful injustice but the European Parliament (the jury) came up with the “not guilty “ verdict while finding the Azeri government 100% responsible. – while Orban’s motives are up for debate, the European Parliaments finding are not, unless down the road there is an Appeal if that’s even possible (I don’t know the rules)

    Re” Re: “This is like saying the terrorists that the US is holding in Guantanamo Bay should be sent back to the Al Qaeda camps of Afghanistan under the treaty of Strasbourg so they can “carry out their sentence”.”

    Not a valid argument because Azerbaijan is not a terrorist organization, it is supposedly a legitimate country that we now know has a lying deceitful President and that’s why the European Parliament issued its scathing report finding the Azeri government solely responsible for its decision to pardon and make a hero out of a convicted murderer.

    =

    • Viking

      olga says:
      October 13, 2012 at 5:09 pm

      the European Parliament vehemently condemns Safarov’s pardon and relieves Hungary from any responsibility in the matter

      Hungary is not even mentioned in the ‘conclusion’-part of the resolution, so the EP-resolution cannot be interpreted as “relieves Hungary from any responsibility in the matter”

      The EP-resolution does also not use the expression “vehemently”, so that is somebody else’s interpretation

      The EP-resolution is a 5-party motion, so it is the smallest common denominator what the Parliament. The biggest party-group, Fidesz EPP, would not have voted in favour of anything criticizing Hungary/Fidesz, so it is all partisan-politics

      On the other hand, it should also be pointed out, that other member states have hold a low profile, not criticizing Hungary in the open, then that would be contrary to trying to force a unified foreign-policy stance and the biggest problem was with Azerbaijan, *but* the reason PimpMaster Whorban accepted the request from the Azeris will be later revealed
      It is this ‘prisoner-for-money’ scheme that will be discussed when it becomes official
      Just wait and see

      * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

  • get real

    lets get this strait :”Atatürk bust erected in Budapest, immediately vandalized”

    So this is the gratitude that the Turks conquer the kingdom of BS and transformed Hun land ( I can’t name it country) in Pashalik?

    too bad you don’t honor your conqueror, but what to expect

    from losers?

    We just won an other battle with them in Istanbul!

    Prepare your ass to be kicked hard in the spring!
    we gonna put again the Romanian flag on your warehouse called parliament!

    • Get Reales

      You Vlachs have 500 year history of being rent-boy to Ottoman Empire!

  • olga

    @ Viking

    Re: Hungary is not even mentioned in the ‘conclusion’-part of the resolution, so the EP-resolution cannot be interpreted as “relieves Hungary from any responsibility in the matter”

    Please post the link for the “conclusion part” because I can’t find it but the text I was quoting absolved Hungary from responsibility so if the conclusion did not mention Hungary it could mean that there was nothing more to add after “not responsible” .

    Perhaps the authors of the EP resolutions should follow the example of this website and repeat everything that has already been dealt and repeat it 100 different ways IE: “Not responsible” then “not accountable “ then “absolved of responsibility” then “not liable “ “off the hook” – the possibilities are endless

    Re: “The EP-resolution does also not use the expression “vehemently”, so that is somebody else’s interpretation”

    The words “deplore” were used twice in points #2 and #5 and you can decide if “vehemently “ was an appropriate description for me to use.

    2.” Deplores the decision by the President of Azerbaijan to pardon Ramil Safarov, a convicted murderer sentenced by the courts of a Member State of the European Union etc
    5. Deplores the hero’s welcome accorded to Mr Safarov in Azerbaijan and the decision to promote him etc

    I can totally understand the Armenian posters’ attitude because no matter how you look at it, the slimy bastard would still be in jail if the Strasbourg Agreement had not been invoked and they look at it from an emotional view and so would most of us if we were Armenians

    Last I checked you were Swedish, not Armenian who hates “Whorban” so please excuse my suspicion that you have an agenda here and not happy with the EP report. You already know my agenda which is more about Hungary than its political leader(s) so from my perspective, the resolution sounds great.

    • Viking

      olga says:
      October 13, 2012 at 10:08 pm

      Please post the link for the “conclusion part”

      Last I checked you were Swedish

      Did we not use the same text:
      (-http://news.am/eng/news/120931.html)

      The conclusion-part is points 1 through 12, before that is just a description of which material they used to arrive to their 12 conclusions

      According to Fidesz State TV I am now ‘originally from Sweden’, not sure which camp I belong to any more, maybe Armenia?

      * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

  • Viking

    Leto مؤدّب says:
    October 14, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    Garabedian’s case is absolutely relevant indeed, no matter how desperately you Armenians try to play it down. You also celebrated a common killer and rewarded him like Azeribaijan rewarded the axe killer.
    It seems this is how it goes there in the Caucasus

    Funny that PimpMaster Whorban did not know that then, because that would exactly be *_THE-* reason not to extradite that AXE-murderer…

    Just shows that PimpMaster Whorban was totally incompetent regarding this issue, nice of ‘leto’ to confirm that

    * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

  • Tsayt

    olga, you keep mentioning the EU parliament decision. It is, for all intents and purposes irrelevant. What IS relevant is Orban’s prior knowledge that the killer would be freed. The \document\ specifying that the killer would continue serving in Baku\ is a mere window dressing, and EVERYBODY, including the esteemed gentlemen/women of the EU Parliament are aware of. In the end, your leader consciously chose to insult Armenia for reasons not-yet-clear, and perhaps after this huge blunder we will not find out until Orban is replaced.

    I have explained that to you before, but all you do is bring up EU parl. so-called verdict.

  • Tsayt

    JA,

    \\So, what exactly, should Hungary be apologizing for..being duped?//

    First of all, let’s just cut the crap and stop playing the discredited notion that Hungary was duped, unless you think people you address to are inherently stupid, or worse, you consider yourself as stupid

    Secondly, you, as in your government, should apologize for willingly committed to an action that insulted Armenia.

    Third, I’m going to pass on your comments about Canadians honouring great men. Suffice it to say that what you say is nonsense. I suggest you visit Québec City and check who we honour.

    Forth, obviously you don’t know Kemal Ataturk’s genocidal campaigns, which Turks call \\National liberation war// which essentially means finishing off the work where the Ottomans left. !00,000s Greeks and Armenians were killed. Izmir was burnt to the ground and IF Armenia hadn’T accepted Soviet rule, there would have been no Armenia today.

    Obviously you should do some research. A nation celebrating their dictator-founding father (so-called) does not mean he needs to be honoured by a third party, Hungary. I don’t see Hitler’s bust in Budapest, Germans loved (love) him and no German would agree that what he did was not for the benefit of the German nation, he just did not succeed, where Ataturk did.

    • esolesek

      Why were the Greeks in Izmir? Why did multiple rulers of Greece come to visit Ataturk while he was alive and commend him for bringing peace to the region? Because they hated him? The Greeks got bent over by the English, like everyone on the planet, and they got turned into hohos, marching 100s of miles from their own land in the middle of Anatolia stupidly. Eventually the Greeks figured out they could stay in their own country and be happy. They still have most of the islands, moron.

      Meanwhile, the USSR also got tired of British meddling and decided to help Ataturk out. Also, your best friend the British deliberately formed Iraq to be an ungovernable mess, like they did across Africa. Then they brought in Israel, so they could run crusades forever with Britain Jr, the Americans who meddled in Iran and got slapped back. Britain is behind a lot of the garbage in the world, so maybe you should bring up genocide charges against them, but you have too much jewish money in their banks. As far as Russia goes, try to bring them up on genocide, I know they don’t have a lot of tolerance for jewish games there.

  • olga

    Tsayt

    FYI, Orban is not my Leader – I was born in Hungary, left as a child and brought up in Canada, so I am much more concerned with Hungary’s image and reputation than I am with any Hungarian politician.

    I keep harping on the EU Parliament’s “so called verdict” because after reading at least 50 articles on this matter, I could not find one single source that I considered impartial so I figured the closest I could come to would be the EU Parliament and the NATO Secretary who said:

    “Azerbaijan’s decision to pardon will not contribute to peaceful settlement of the [Nagorno-]Karabakh conflict and to the dialogue between both countries. This is NATO’s position. NATO is not responsible for this crime, just as Hungary is not responsible for this crime. I understand that Safarov’s extradition to Azerbaijan was carried out in compliance with international standards. But I’m concerned by the decision to grant Safarov pardon in Azerbaijan,” the NATO Secretary General noted. “

    I tried very hard to look for and read articles from trusted Canadian media sources but the ones I read were just reporting the facts of the case and only Safarov and the Azeri gov’t were vilified.

    I also read the New York Times “Two Steps Backwards in the Caucasus ” By PETER RUTLAND Published: September 10, 2012 – Hungary in the North American papers seem to rate one line, all the emphasis was on the savage crime and the country that made a hero out of a subhuman coward.

    Also note, that it was the New York Times that retracted an earlier report claiming the Azerri President met Safarov at the airport, so not everything one reads in even reputable papers is true. He might as well have met him, because he couldn’t look any more disgusting but the point is that it was erroneous information

    Interestingly all the Western newspapers I saw published the same picture that shows Safarov holding a huge bouquet of roses upon his arrival and as they say, a picture is worth a thousand words; I don’t think it was a coincidence to pick that picture and it was done for emphasis. IMHO that was the best “public relations picture” that Armenia could ever have used to discredit everything the Azeri government had to say in this matter.

  • olga

    @ Tsayt

    I replied to you and there was not one single word in that posting that should be held for moderation, but it is.

  • Chameleons

    Typical armenians acting like chameleons as usual, pretending to be Hungarians and writing comments. Hungarians dont care about you. Hungarians know about Atatürk very well. Hungarians know what Atatürk did and said about them. Armenians are savages everywhere in the world, they prove it. Only creatures like armenians and greeks can behave like this. Atatürk must have hurt greeks really well that they cant even handle his statue, LOL ! By the way, there is already a statue of Atatürk near the castle in the center of Budapest. Hungarians and Turks are relatives, brothers, we are grandsons of Atilla and no matter what you miserable armenians or greeks do, you cant change that. Now stop crying and go back to your caves !

    • http://www.zpub.com/notes/idle.html TNT

      Ataturk was the son of a whore, and so are you. You don’t have to be Greek or Armenian to hate Turks. It’s an international past-time.

  • Kurultaj

    You filthy armenians and greeks should also attend ” Our KURULTAJ ” which takes place every year in Hungary. This summer it was great, relatives, brothers sisters Hungarians, Turks, Turks from TURKISH REPUBLIC OF NORTHERN CYPRUS, Azerbaijan, Kazakhistan, Moldova, Ozbekistan etc… took part in the meeting like every year. You can come and visit us next year and protest it too if you dare. You can also find leader of Jobbik’s message about Kurultaj. Go back to your poor, filthy armenia and leave Hungary.

    • Karpatok

      That really sounds sickening! Something should be done about that.

      • Karpatok

        Somebody call the RENDORSEG. The Africans are trying to pass as Europeans!

        • Karpatok

          I didn,t know Hungary was so hard up to sell rooms.

    • http://www.zpub.com/notes/idle.html TNT

      It doesn’t get filthier than Turks. The lowliest race on earth, despised by almost every country. I’ve never met one who didn’t smell like an unwashed dog.

  • Siktir Esek

    Leto مؤدّب says:
    October 13, 2012 at 9:43 pm
    Yes, Armenia and Azerbaijan are pretty much comparable. , Using a Hungarian idiom, “one is nineteen and the other one is twenty but one”.
    **************************

    You claim Armenians and Azeris are comparable?

    Then that means hungarians and Gypsies are also comparable and that phrase also applies to Hungarians and Gypsies: “one is nineteen and the other one is twenty but one”.

  • Karpatok

    No.It’s more like Azeris and Khabar Jaws are comparable.

    • Viking

      You know from personal experience?

      That would explain a lot of your posts then

      * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

  • british

    these armenians need to fix up! wow they are full of hatred! very surprised that there are only few armenians with a decent posts….

    all their retards must be here or maybe the armenians putting up hate posts here are paid?? or maybe they are part of a large propaganda team?

  • jacques

    What happened in budapest and the comments are rather sad. Even the most basic history book, if ever one reads it, would explain clearly that ataturk was not involved with armenians being killed. Armenia and its population seems to be motivated simply by the hatred of whatever relates to Turkey. This is not the way to go guys, you only make fool of yourselves.

    Concerning the bust of ataturk in Hungary, it is totally understandable; after all he was one of the mastermind of the balkan pact. Again, any history book might be helpful to ignorants

  • systemr

    good job

  • esolesek

    If Turkey would admit what it did, would the Armenians at that point shut up?

    It happened 100 years ago. The Armenians, in 1922, formed a revenge execution squad that killed seven, probably more, including 2 of the 3 top officers responsible, which the Turkish GOVT ITSELF HAD PROSECUTED and sentenced to death IN ABSENTIA! Europe let them move in.

    Let’s not forget that Greece/Britain were well into Western Anatolia, and the Russians and Armenians were coming from the East. When Russia collapsed itself from WWI, and turned into the Soviet Union, it sent Ataturk money and weapons to help him fight the British and the Armenians, so its not like the Russians were doing the Armenians any favors!. Then, under the Soviet Union, Armenia was a republic for what 70 years until it finally got its independence?

    Armenians have a lot of money internationally. Selling hate is not doing anyone any favors. Turkey could admit it was a genocide, but the Armenians could try to move on and stop creating more violence in the world.

  • esolesek

    So much Armenian morality – (we never hear this news in the West).

    on March 8, 2011, an Armenian Defense Army sniper positioned in Nagorno-Karabakh territory targeted and killed 9-year-old Fariz Badalov

    • http://www.zpub.com/notes/idle.html TNT

      One less little bastard terrorist on the planet.

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