October 31st, 2012

Uproar over ambassador’s comments on Roma

University teachers, students and researchers on Tuesday protested against remarks by Geza Jeszenszky, Hungary’s ambassador to Norway, which they think “stigmatise” the Roma minority. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs said that Jeszenszky cannot be blamed for prejudice for his lines.

Over 100 people signed the statement concerning a textbook used at Budapest’s Corvinus University (BCE), in which Jeszenszky suggested that “the reason why many Roma are mentally ill is because in Roma culture it is permitted for sisters and brothers or cousins to marry each other or just to have sexual intercourse with each other”.

The statement said that the textbook’s conclusion was not scientifically supported and insisted that the community of BCE could not “accept pseudo-scholarly claims disguised in the cloak of science, especially not those harshly stigmatising an ethnic group.”

Jeszenszky has rejected accusations of racism. In a statement, the diplomat said that “as a teacher, minister and ambassador” he has always supported cases of persecuted ethnic or religious communities.

He admitted that he was not an expert on Roma issues, and said that a 15-page chapter in his textbook on the community was based on other authors. “Not even a biased Roma civil rights activist could find fault with my handling of the subject; hundreds of Hungarian and foreign students have used my book and found it useful,” he said.

Jeszenszky added that the issue of mental disabilities among the Roma are usually attributed to the community’s closed nature and the resulting frequent marriage between brothers and sisters. Due to his assignment in Oslo, the seminar has not been advertised for two years and the textbook did not go to bookstores, he added.

On Tuesday, the Hungarian Foreign Ministry said in a statement that Jeszenszky had written his remarks as a university teacher rather than as Hungary’s ambassador. The statement said that though the contested remarks “could be misunderstood”, Jeszenszky’s life achievement and his latest publications all demonstrate that he is committed to minority rights and cannot be charged with prejudice.

In the meantime, organisers of a Holocaust conference in Oslo suggested that it would be “prudent” of Jeszenszky to stay away from the event.

Head of the Center for Studies of Holocaust and Religious Minorities Anton Weiss-Wendt told MTI that the conference was supported by the Hungarian, Swedish and Israeli embassies in Oslo, and noted that Hungarian Holocaust expert Professor Laszlo Karsai was one of the guests invited. Karsai, however, declined to participate, and referred to Jeszenszky’s “biased and racist” remarks in the textbook, Weiss-Wendt said.

Weiss-Wendt quoted Jeszenszky’s email to the centre, based in Norway, saying as the Roma community was “inbreeding” and “suggested that Roma as a people have little idea of the dangers posed by incest”, he said.

“These and similar comments are deemed uninformed, if not offensive, in this country,” Weiss-Wendt added.

In a telephone interview to commercial TV channel ATV on Tuesday evening, the ambassador said that if he were to publish his textbook now, he would consider how to quote the contested sentence, if at all. He insisted that it had been a direct quote from medical papers.

Jeszenszky said that the chapter in question attempted to present “the real weight of the problem” and that it suggested his “understanding for the Roma”, the author’s desire to improve their situation.

The ambassador said he was sorry if any readers found his lines offensive, but said that not only the contested passage but the whole chapter or the entire book should be read.

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  • Alex

    Hungary Ambassador to Oslo persona non grata at the Oslo Holocaust Symposium

    This the headline being read by very many people within Europe….once again a big shame on this government and awful PR.

    • Anonymous

      “persona non grata at the Oslo Holocaust Symposium”

      Is that a punisment or a bonus?

      • Ricsi

        It depends. If Ákos is there… it’s a punishment.
        But if not… it’s a bonus! That means, he is with me!

  • Aloof

    The statement said that though the contested remarks “could be misunderstood”… well of course they are. Hungary sure seems to have a perpetual problem with being “misunderstood” especially since 2010.

    Another global embarrassment, another black eye for Hungary.

    • Drugs are baaad

      “Another global embarrassment, another black eye for Hungary”

      The gypsy problem is a global embarrassment. The PC police and its taboos ain’t helping.

  • ricsi

    Anybody who knows anything about this problem can only agree with his words.The two idiot non-Hungarian comments above illustrate the naivity of ‘do gooders’ knowing nothing about reality.

    • Aloof

      And I guess the over 100 Hungarians at Corvinus don’t know what they’re talking about either eh? What’s unsubstianted and unscientific racist dogma doing being be part of the curriculum anyway?

      Reality is that the Roma have been around Hungary a long time and for the last 500 years 75% of them have fully integrated and have been assimilated into Hungarian society. So we’re now talking about the 25% in NE and SE Hungary that refuse to do so; around 125-150,000 folks.

      And as usual you miss the friggin’ point. It’s not so much about reality but of the perception you local yokel dolt.

      No matter what YOU think, Hungary is once again embarrassed on a global scale.

      • Walacky

        “What’s unsubstianted and unscientific racist dogma doing being be part of the curriculum anyway?”

        Surely, you must know the whole spectrum of scientific literature concerning Gypsy marriage customs and genetics. As it certainly may not happen that some PC-dogmatic intolerant ranting about “racism” and “prejudice” would come in way of facts and observations.

      • Walacky

        “No matter what YOU think, Hungary is once again embarrassed on a global scale.”

        Talk about generalization – almost as stupid as calling this affair of fly’s fart an “uproar”.

    • Viking

      ricsi says:
      October 31, 2012 at 11:29 am

      Anybody who knows anything about this problem can only agree with his words

      As your pupil ‘maygar’ has showed in other threads, most Arab Muslims are inbred, which would then explain your and “Jobbik’s” wurm for Syria and Iran, I mean from one inbred to another?

      Inbreeding seems to explain hatred to J*ws also, right?

      So what is the the problem with inbreeding among Roma, when your Arab friends are?

      * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

  • Viking

    On Tuesday, the Hungarian Foreign Ministry said in a statement that Jeszenszky had written his remarks as a university teacher rather than as Hungary’s ambassador. The statement said that though the contested remarks “could be misunderstood”

    Weiss-Wendt quoted Jeszenszky’s email to the centre, based in Norway, saying as the Roma community was “inbreeding” and “suggested that Roma as a people have little idea of the dangers posed by incest”, he said.

    “These and similar comments are deemed uninformed, if not offensive, in this country,” Weiss-Wendt added

    The above shows that Jeszenszky continues to “be misunderstood”…except by ‘maygar’ and his ilk

    Every day The PimpMaster Whorban let Jeszenszky keep his position as its Ambassador to Norway, is a day of shame for Hungary

    That this type of opinions are published in a textbook used at Budapest’s Corvinus University (BCE) shows the case of institutionalised racism against Roma in Hungary and Fidesz non-actions just shows there is no will to combat it

    * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

    • Walacky

      “and “suggested that Roma as a people have little idea of the dangers posed by incest”

      Oh, I am sure that the Gypsies are more aware of recessive mutations accumulating during inbreeding and such than anyone else. Moreover, this Weiss-Wend fellow can certainly produce a valid assessment on how well educated the Gypsies are in these trivialities.

      • Viking

        If statement A is not true, how can then statement B, which refers to A, be true?

        Where is it proven that “Roma as a people have little idea”?
        How many were interviewed?
        Was this only valid for Hungary?
        Which other studies can be used to cross-check any findings?

        No, you are just using a typical racist rhetoric

        * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

        • Walacky

          The opposite of “Roma as a people had little idea” would be that “Roma as a peopla have at least some knowledge concerning inheritance patterns and risks of inbreeding” – considering their level of average skills and education, needs no further consideration. Only for dogmatic PC-zombies like yourself, who purely for resons beyond me simply ingnore facts. All you should go is check with Medline for references reporting accumulation of mutations affecting Gypsies, but hey, who has ever said that facts should blurr your dogmatic convictions.

          • Aloof

            @ Walawhacky says: November 1, 2012 at 6:42 am

            Yo gorgio, why don’t you and all your ignorant, unsophisticated and racist Jobbo buddies get educated on the subject? Instead of defending the very shallow and self serving snob Jeszenszky, who is just plain stupid to say something like that in public as an ambassador for christsakes sit down and ENTIRELY read one of the best summations I’ve ever read about the gypsies “Gypsy Demon and Divinities, the magic and religion of the gypsies” by Elwood B. Trigg (D. Phil. Oxon).

            When you’re done, come back and we’ll discuss.

          • Viking

            Walacky says:
            November 1, 2012 at 6:42 am

            All you should go is check with Medline for references reporting accumulation of mutations affecting Gypsies

            So, I did, and it led me to this study on these studies, which in regard to the question discussed here writes:

            “The emphasis on consanguinity in affected families displaces the focus from an obvious need for public health intervention to patterns of personal behaviour. In the face of the reported high gene frequencies, consanguinity is no more relevant than it would be as a cause of beta-thalassemia in Mediterranean countries”
            (-http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2350/2/5)

            So, again, go back to Real Science, which is critical, not the one where:
            “In view of the lack of systematic studies, the list cannot be comprehensive and is likely to represent the biases and interests of individual medical researchers working in this field. Data in the literature, particularly from the Spanish Collaborative Study of Congenital Malformations, point to the existence of a number of additional rare single gene disorders, whose molecular basis is still to be identified”

            And more to the question, Who Is a Roma?
            “More importantly, the analysis highlights the internal diversity of the Roma, who appear to be genetically far more heterogeneous than autochthonous European populations”

            “This historical “track record”, the persisting practices of discrimination and marginalisation, and the fact that, unlike the Jews, the Finns and the French Canadians, the Roma are still the “object” of investigations conducted by outsiders, are all likely to impact on the attitudes of the Roma towards genetics. Building up the trust and collaboration necessary for both public health programs and research, should become a goal of the health care systems of Europe”

            * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

          • Viking

            Walacky says:
            November 1, 2012 at 6:42 am

            All you should go is check with Medline for references reporting accumulation of mutations affecting Gypsies

            So, I did, and it led me to this study on these studies, which in regard to the question discussed here writes:

            “The emphasis on consanguinity in affected families displaces the focus from an obvious need for public health intervention to patterns of personal behaviour. In the face of the reported high gene frequencies, consanguinity is no more relevant than it would be as a cause of beta-thalassemia in Mediterranean countries”
            (-http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2350/2/5)

            So, again, go back to Real Science, which is critical, not the one where:
            “In view of the lack of systematic studies, the list cannot be comprehensive and is likely to represent the biases and interests of individual medical researchers working in this field. Data in the literature, particularly from the Spanish Collaborative Study of Congenital Malformations, point to the existence of a number of additional rare single gene disorders, whose molecular basis is still to be identified”

            And more to the question, Who Is a Roma?
            “More importantly, the analysis highlights the internal diversity of the Roma, who appear to be genetically far more heterogeneous than autochthonous European populations”

            “This historical “track record”, the persisting practices of discrimination and marginalisation, and the fact that, unlike the J*ws, the Finns and the French Canadians, the Roma are still the “object” of investigations conducted by outsiders, are all likely to impact on the attitudes of the Roma towards genetics. Building up the trust and collaboration necessary for both public health programs and research, should become a goal of the health care systems of Europe”

            * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

  • Pete H.

    Anyone who knows anything about biology knows something called the founder effect, that results in relatively homogenous genetic variability in groups founded by a small founding population. Roma populations have such a structure and history. The original founding population of Roma from India was relatively small. There is no legitimate research to suggest a link between this and mental illness in Roma.

    What has happened is that rascists like Ricsi have taken a valid biological observation, the relative genetic homogeneity of Roma, and twisted into nonsense. And so we have idiots like him claiming that Roma allow siblings to have sex.

    The opposite is actually true and Roma marriage customs discourage inbreeding (marriage to close relatives).

    Yes, another embarrassment for Hungary. He should have his ambassadorship revoked.

    • Igazi Magyar

      From what I understand, the Roma population started off quite diverse and has remained so. It seems to me that Fidesz is suffering from intellectual inbreeding, and they have become disconnected from most Hungarians and the rest of humanity.

  • Democrat

    He wrote the words as Geza Jeszenszky, just as he will collect the royalties as Geza Jeszenszky. His views make him unsuitable to be either a teacher or an ambassador. His attributing them to others makes him a weasel. Yet another FIDESZ own goal.

    • Pete H.

      Agreed this is also an embarrassment for Corvinus University.

      • Leto مؤدّب

        Agreed the truth is the embarrassment. See below.

        I’m not saying though incest is a Hungarian Gypsy thing.

        -http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2155563/Our-family-believes-incest-First-cousins-end-sinful-relationship-getting-married-My-Big-American-Gypsy-Wedding.html

        Ceterum censeo MSZP delendum est.

        • Viking

          In the scientific communities there are very disputed evidence for any major problems due to 1st cousin marriages

          This is the norm among many Arab Muslim communities and was rather common in Europe some time ago

          * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

        • Viking

          “The emphasis on consanguinity in affected families displaces the focus from an obvious need for public health intervention to patterns of personal behaviour. In the face of the reported high gene frequencies, consanguinity is no more relevant than it would be as a cause of beta-thalassemia in Mediterranean countries”
          (-http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2350/2/5)

          * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

  • Abásci

    Any comments on inbreeding at the top of government (and Jobbik)? Seems to be an unusual amount of mental instability there!

  • Magyar

    Why does the truth hurt so much?

  • Leto مؤدّب

    This is really liberal-postcommie witch-hunting at its best.

    Here is a detailed sociology study from 1994, written by a team of “Romologists” from the University of Pécs, made in a Gypsy community in County Baranya.

    -http://mek.oszk.hu/02000/02048/02048.pdf

    Quote from Page 43:

    Among the surveyed 24 Gypsy families, incest (“rokonházasság”) occured in 15 ones. So 62.5 percents of the families and 68.6 of the children were affected.
    25 percents of the families had mentally handicapped children and 29.2 percents had physically handicapped one. Altogether 54.1% percents of the surveyed families had handicapped children.

    Their conclusion:
    “The 54.1 percent rate of handicapped children among these families obviously results from the 62.5 percent incest rate, that is almost all “rokonházasság” results in handicapped children”.

    Yeah, they found even a brother-sister case (“testvér”), see table.

    Ceterum censeo MSZP delendum est.

    • Walacky

      Surely, they must be Jeszenszky’s inbred relatives.

    • SzDSz

      Shut up you racist!!!!

    • Pete H.

      So Leto found an obscure report on the Hungarian Electronic Library. It is not a detailed study. it is rather amateurish by modern academic standards.

      It may even be a collection of student essays – The subtitle of the collection of papers is “Válogatás a Romológiai Alapismeretek tanfolyam dolgozataiból”

      Doesn’t this mean these are research reports for a basic course on Roma?

      If it is, then it is laughable that you are presenting this as evidence.

      Let’s assume the author is actually a scholar.

      1) Not a study published in a peer reviewed journal. There is therefore no way to judge whether accepted standards of sampling design and questioners were used. We do not know if the families were randomly picked or picked because of bias.

      Therefore we can not extrapolate from this study to Roma population in general.

      In addition, since this was limited to a community in Baranya, we do not know how this information extrapolates to the wider Roma population. Again why did he pick this particular community of Roma?

      They also fail to state which handicaps (mental and physical) were found in which families. So there is no way to judge whether the handicaps are due to close relatives marrying or to other causes. The common genetic birth defects in Roma include limb girdle muscular dystrophy type 2C also called gamma-sarcoglycanopathy, congenital myasthenic syndrome type 1a, spinal muscular atrophy, and three novel hereditary sensorimotor neuropathies, namely -Lom, -Russe and the congenital cataracts facial dysmorphism neuropathy syndrome. I find it odd that this type of detail was absent from an “academic” study.

      The study was not done by a group of Romolgists, but rather just one. It was published in a volume of papers.

      It does not have the qualities I typically find in peer reviewed papers.

      I do not trust the study, and would require verification using modern research techniques that are reviewed by peers in an academic journal.

      Assuming this study is valid (I have no confidence in it) then

      2) If the study is accurate, brother sister marriage is rare. If the study is accurate than cousin marriages are common.

      3) In 10% of the world cousin marriages are considered normal. Very prevalent in the mid-east. Even Charles Darwin married his cousin. It was considered very acceptable in much of Europe in the 1800’s. Today we know it can result in children with developmental abnormalities.

      4) If the study is true, than Roma do need a public health campaign aimed at teaching the possible consequences to the children born from close relatives.

      Why do I find contrary information?

      5) I have already found numerous references to brother-sister incest being a taboo in Roma societies. Some mention banishment for incest.

      6) Just did a quick review of 10 top articles to come up on a search of PubMed (a premier academic research database). No mention of inceest, but lots of references to founder effect birth defects in Roma. If cousin marriages are so common, why no mention?

      7) Who the hell is Jakab Istvánne? I searched three anthropology databases and two biomedical. No sign of him. Two of these databases go back to 1885. I tried several variations on his name, Istvánne Jakab, Jakab Istvánne, Istvan Jakab, Jakab Istvan. For now I will call him the invisible “scholar”.

      • Leto مؤدّب

        You tried to throw in a lot of egg-headed words… but to little effect. :)

        As a response, really only one thing from me. You write “If the study is accurate, brother sister marriage is rare. If the study is accurate than cousin marriages are common.”

        Oh, what an achievement! They do mate with their siblings but only rarely! They mate commonly only with their cousins! It’s clear now that Fascist Jeszenszky’s remark was absolutely baseless! :D

        “If the study is true, than Roma do need a public health campaign aimed at teaching the possible consequences to the children born from close relatives.”

        How could you do that if the “liberal” pundits, particularly a certain László Karsai, “Holocaust researcher”, who was behind this smearing campaign, try to deny even the very facts for ideologycal reasons and, more importantly, to sling mud at conservative personalities like Mr. Jeszenszky? :D

        Ceterum censeo MSZP delendum est.

        • MagyarViking

          Leto مؤدّب says:
          November 2, 2012 at 3:02 pm

          They mate commonly only with their cousins! It’s clear now that Fascist Jeszenszky’s remark was absolutely baseless! :D

          If cousin-mating is a *real* problem, why is it legal in most of the World, except 26 States in the US?

          Since when did you follow what some US retarded hysterical moral panicers believe in?

          It is not illegal in Hungary today
          Has it *ever* been illegal in Hungary?

          * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

    • Viking

      Leto مؤدّب says:
      October 31, 2012 at 7:28 pm

      The 54.1 percent rate of handicapped children among these families obviously results from the 62.5 percent incest rate

      This was a very scientific proof and we suddenly forget what that Fidesz Mayor claimed 2010 that Roma pregnant women hurt their children to get handicapped children so they could get more benefits from the State

      This year it is ‘incest’, as in 1st Cousin marriage, which is rather popular in the Arab Muslim world and was normal in Europe before

      * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

    • Viking

      From a study of these ‘studies':

      “The emphasis on consanguinity in affected families displaces the focus from an obvious need for public health intervention to patterns of personal behaviour. In the face of the reported high gene frequencies, consanguinity is no more relevant than it would be as a cause of beta-thalassemia in Mediterranean countries”
      (-http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2350/2/5)

      * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

    • Liz Aucoin

      I would not believe a word said by any “Hungarian Romologists”, they do nothing but vilify Roma. Just because some have done it doesn’t mean that it is accepted by all Roma families. This is not something I have ever seen amongst my very very large family and if you think some Roma from “My big fat American Gypsy Wedding” is an example of Roma culture, your are a bigger fool than I thought in the first place. And as far as their statistics on mentally handicapped Roma children, I would never take their assessment on that for the simple fact that Hungarians have made claims about Roma children being mentally handicapped have been false in many cases simply to justify putting them in segregation. Unfounded BS put out there by haters of the Roma. If you want real information, get an unbiased assessment of them, by non-hungarians.

      • Magyar

        I was waiting till the bitch Queen Gypsy shows up, and here she is, a curse for us all!

        Olga’s Gypsy crystal ball must have summoned her.

        The Hungarian Gypsylogists are quite spot on. Lots of Gypsies commit or are a product of incest, and as a result have a high handicap rate.

        “my very very large family ”
        Let me guess, you have 15 other siblings, your mother is also your cousin, and your father is also your uncle, your other father is actually your cousins brother, and the rest of your mothers are in fact your sisters and your older brother is actually your husband.

        That is the problem with you, you are Cockroaches, act like Cockroaches and breed like Cockroaches.

        Ps. WTF is “Roma”? the correct scientific term is mocskos cigányok.

        PSS, do you prefer to be called Cockroaches, or rats? I am undecided.

        • Liz Aucoin

          HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! I think it is you with mental handicapp, your ignorance says it all! That is ok, people like you end up putting guns in your own mouth.

  • Magyar

    So according to Leto’s source, many Gypsies are inbred, and as a result, a lot of them are handicapped either physically or mentally.

    But when I say Gypsies are inferior (which they are, given that their culture allows inbreeding, and many of them are handicapped) I am a “disgusting racist”..

    • Leto مؤدّب

      Yeah, you are and the facts I pointed out in my posts don’t contradict this statement at all.

      BTW, the Hapsburgs and the Egyptian pharaohs also had an incest problem.

      Ceterum censeo MSZP delendum est.

      • Magyar

        “BTW, the Hapsburgs and the Egyptian pharaohs also had an incest problem.”

        I know the Hapsburgs had an incest problem, and it was obvious in their behavior.

        And since a lot of Gypsies are inbred, some might say even a majority of Gypsies are inbred,and as a result many are handicapped, so what is wrong with me saying Gypsies are inferior (their inbreeding is a proof of this).

        Do you see an inbred and mentally handicapped Gypsy on the same level as a healthy non postcommie Hungarian?

        I guess you do, since thats what they drilled into you in KISZ during your youth :D (commie mentality never fades, does it Leto? )

        • wolfi

          What about Queen Victoria’s descendants ?

          -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haemophilia_in_European_royaltywhich neeages

    • Pete H.

      Leto’s source is a collection of student research projects. More once my longer comment is moderated.

  • Walacky

    J Urol. 1984 May;131(5):853-6.
    An epidemiological study of renal lithiasis in gypsies and others in Spain.
    Torres Ramirez C, Fernández Morales E, Zuluaga Gómez A, Gálvez Alcaraz L, Del Rio Samper S.
    Abstract

    A comparative epidemiological study was done on renal lithiasis in gypsies and nongypsies in Eastern Andalucía, Spain. A family history of lithiasis in gypsies was obtained 2 to 3 times less often compared to nongypsies (1.14 versus 4.34 per cent). The male-to-female ratio of gypsies with lithiasis was 0.59 per cent compared to 1.54 per cent in others. The inverse ratio in gypsies contrasted with those obtained by various authors in western countries of white and black populations. There was a predominance of immediate family history of lithiasis in gypsies with stones (p less than 0.001, 11.81 per cent), which was not observed among nongypsies (p equals 0.80). The incidence of consanguineous marriage among gypsies was high (26.95 per cent) compared to others (4.07 per cent). There was a dependent relationship in gypsies between family history of lithiasis and consumption of meat products (p equals 0.001), dairy products and food rich in oxalic acid (p equals 0.05). In nongypsies these differences were less significant statistically and were nonexistent in the incidence of consumption of food containing oxalic acid. We ascribe the difference in the incidence of lithiasis between gypsies and other subjects principally to hereditary and dietary factors.

    Sure, nazis, too.

    • Pete H.

      What are the details because marriage to 4th or 5th cousins is also considered consanguineous? What needs to be reported is the coefficient of relatedness.

    • Viking

      …and Non-Roma and Roma ate the same quality food, lived the same regular lives and all other environmental factors were the same…

      Think if science was so simple as these ‘walacky’, ‘leto’ and ‘maygar’ wants to make it into, always subordinated The Party Line

      A couple of years ago it was that Roma Mothers explicitly hurt their unborn babies that was the reason for that Roma families are over-represented with children having mental disabilities, now it is that cousins get married…

      * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

      • Walacky

        Yes, sure, Journal of Urology lacking scientific qualities, and here comes a troll called Viking and being smart.

        • Viking

          Why not listen to Science?

          “The emphasis on consanguinity in affected families displaces the focus from an obvious need for public health intervention to patterns of personal behaviour. In the face of the reported high gene frequencies, consanguinity is no more relevant than it would be as a cause of beta-thalassemia in Mediterranean countries”
          (-http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2350/2/5)

          No one is questioning the findings that some things are more common among some Roma (Who is a Roma?), it is the *conclusion* that marrying a cousin that is the root cause

          * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

          • Walacky

            Sure, marrying a cousin is not the cause – copulating her IS, and what genetic/inheritable consequence it will have, the Gypsies generally have no clue whatsoever

          • Viking

            Walacky says:
            November 1, 2012 at 10:19 am

            Sure, marrying a cousin is not the cause – copulating her IS

            Pls show how getting children from a 1st cousin “causes genetic diseases”

            Even in the US, some States allow 1st cousins to get married

            * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

  • Walacky

    “These and similar comments are deemed uninformed, if not offensive, in this country,” Weiss-Wendt added.

    Apparently Breivik is not the oinly deranged person in Norway

    • Viking

      You are a Norwegian?

      * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

      • Walacky

        Although I appreciate your efforts to appear as someone, mental ejaculates like yourself don’t qualify to be included, even if you were in Norway.

    • spectator

      “Apparently Breivik is not the oinly deranged person in Norway”

      – No, he isn’t, you are right!
      Right now there is a Hungarian ambassador in Oslo to share this ‘honor’ too…!

  • Magyar

    Now lets go over this again.

    Leto مؤدّب says:
    October 31, 2012 at 7:28 pm

    “So 62.5 percents of the families and 68.6 of the children were affected.
    25 percents of the families had mentally handicapped children and 29.2 percents had physically handicapped one. Altogether 54.1% percents of the surveyed families had handicapped children.”

    Now we can extrapolate this data, and see that vast majority of Gypsy Children are affected by inbreeding.

    Since inbreeding causes genetic diseases, which is shown by 25% of Gypsy children being mentally handicapped, and 29.2% of Gypsy children being physically handicapped, it is safe to say that the majority of Gypsies are indeed genetically inferior.

    Just to post this from a “non racist” point of view, Gypsies are not genetically inferior due to their race, but due to inbreeding, which is part of their culture.

    These handicapped Gypsies (more than half) are nothing more than a burden on the state.

    There you go, Gypsies are indeed inferior, and not from a racist point of view, but from a medical point of view.

    • Viking

      Magyar says:
      October 31, 2012 at 11:31 pm

      Since inbreeding causes genetic diseases

      Pls show how getting children from a 1st cousin “causes genetic diseases”

      Even in the US, some States allow 1st cousins to get married

      * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

      • Magyar

        “Even in the US, some States allow 1st cousins to get married”

        What does “even in the US” supposed to mean? So fucking what, it is the bastion of western degeneracy.

        And 1st cousins has been proven to cause genetic diseases.

        • Viking

          Magyar says:
          November 1, 2012 at 1:30 pm

          And 1st cousins has been proven to cause genetic diseases

          Same proof as 90% of Roma are criminals?

          No European country prohibits marriage between first cousins. It is also legal throughout Canada and Mexico to marry your cousin. The U.S. is the only western country with cousin marriage restrictions, but 26 States allows it

          Children of non-related couples have a 2-3% risk of birth defects, as opposed to first cousins having a 4-6% risk.

          It is estimated that 20 percent of all couples worldwide are first cousins. It is also estimated that 80 percent of all marriages historically have been between first cousins!

          We are all cousins.
          No two people are more distantly related than 50th cousins.

          * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

          • procastinator

            that is 100% more :-)

  • wolfi

    Life would be much easier if we could combine those fascist loonies here into one person. So what about:

    Whacky Maygar leto – sounds good, doesn’t it ?

    • Fact checker

      If you re-arrange the letters in ‘Walacky’, ‘Magyar’ and ‘Leto’, you get

      “Whacky gay loony.”

      And that’s a scientific fact.

      • Walacky

        … says little cat fecker…

    • Walacky

      Here is something for you to grasp, although you would not qualify for a decent match even with a cockroach, along with the rest of your local PC-dogmatic braindead chums:

      “Dissent from the intolerant new orthodoxy and you are a bigot, a hater, a homophobe, an enemy of women’s rights.”

      • Viking

        Why not take the bigger qoute of Pat ‘the rat’ Buchanan?

        “Abortion, a felony in the 1950s, is now a constitutional right. Homosexual marriage, an absurdity not long ago, is the civil-rights cause du jour.

        Dissent from the intolerant new orthodoxy and you are a bigot, a hater, a homophobe, an enemy of women’s rights”
        (-http://www.wnd.com/2012/10/romney-for-president/)

        No wonder the results of Obama gets 90% support in 10 EU-countries:
        -http://www.economicvoice.com/if-europeans-could-vote-in-the-us-election-obama-would-win-by-over-90/)

        A politician like Obama is regarded in mainstream Europe as a liberal or even slight Conservative, but Romney is regarded as way too far-right
        And his far-right supporters fall off the scale in Europe…

        * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

        • wolfi

          Viking, you forgot to mention that in 1950 in some US states sexual relations or marriage between blacks and whites was also forbidden.

          And even some sexual acts of a married couple might have brought them into jail.

          PS especially for Whacky Gaymar HHadmirer leto: Most of these acts you can see performed on the net nowadays …

          • Viking

            Well, we should not forget the laws of that Nation of the Free:
            * In Pennsylvania it is completely illegal to sleep on your refrigerator outside, it is though allowed if the refrigerator is inside a building

            * In Oklahoma, it is illegal to wear boots to bed. They must be removed before falling asleep. On the flipside, wearing shoes is perfectly okay.

            * It is illegal to let a horse sleep in a bakery in Santa Ana, California.

            * In Minnesota, Minneapolis, it is illegal to sleep naked, even in your own bed, in a home that you own.

            * In parts of Maryland, a woman may not go through her husband’s pockets while he is sleeping.

            * In Clawson, Michigan, there is a law that makes it legal for a farmer to sleep with his pigs, cows, horses, goats and chickens

            * Don’t try kissing a sleeping woman in Logan County, Colorado

            * In Tennessee it is against the law to drive a car while sleeping

            * Delaware law says that not only is it prohibited to sleep on public benches, it is also illegal to pretend that you are sleeping.

            Obama has obviously not yet destroyed these parts of the US, but maybe four more years will fix that?

            * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

        • Walacky

          Lucky I am neither au EU Liberal, or a US voter.

  • Paul

    I don’t see what is wrong with incest.
    This is the 21st century, and people should have a right to choose. As long as they are aware of the possible consequences, it is fine and morally acceptable in my book.

    I just wish Nazis like Leto, Magyar and Wallacky stop with their anti-gay, anti-transexual and anti-incest fascist propaganda!

    • Aloof

      Wow! Now I finally know what they mean by EXTREME Left.

    • Leto مؤدّب

      Are you for real? :D

      Ceterum censeo MSZP delendum est.

    • Paul

      @ Aloof and Viking

      “I don’t see what is wrong with incest.”
      Character assassination..Fidesz core buisiness….it was a fake post. Some people get paid for that apparently. I don’t comment much lately, I read, don’t feel like commenting on the lunatics over here. But now I have to. A fake post.

      • Leto مؤدّب

        “Fidesz core buisiness….it was a fake post. ”

        Sure, it must be a Fidesz-fan who fakes my handle all the time on this site. :D

        Ceterum censeo MSZP delendum est.

    • Paul

      About fake post

      “I just wish Nazis like Leto, Magyar and Wallacky stop with their anti-gay, anti-transsexual and anti-incest fascist propaganda!”…anti- incest propaganda…now this is a very clever and sick way of character assassination isn’t it. Like being gay is linked to incest now.

      • Leto مؤدّب

        Actually one can link these two things: both are obvious social degradation phenomena.

        Ceterum censeo MSZP delendum est.

        • MagyarViking

          Actually one can link being a Fidesz-supporter to low IQ
          It is all scientific proven:
          -http://www.livescience.com/18132-intelligence-social-conservatism-racism.html

          “There’s no gentle way to put it: People who give in to racism and prejudice may simply be dumb, according to a new study”

          “The research finds that children with low intelligence are more likely to hold prejudiced attitudes as adults”

          We really do understand your problem

          * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

  • Viking

    Paul says:
    November 1, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    I don’t see what is wrong with incest.

    So what is incest?
    “Incest is sexual intercourse between family members and close relatives. The term may apply to sexual activities between: individuals of close “blood relationship”; members of the same household; step relatives related by adoption or marriage; and members of the same clan or lineage”
    “parent-child and sibling-sibling unions are almost universally forbidden”
    (wiki)

    So, if I screw my much younger brother’s wife I am performing ‘incest’, but God is she gorgeous…

    So, if she gets pregnant, I will be the biological father, but my brother will pay for it, believing he is
    So I get all the fun and no pain

    * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

    • Paul

      @ Viking

      I agree….I know….it was a FAKE post, now think about THAT.

  • spectator

    Well, as we all have the ‘pleasure’ to learn “the reason why many Roma are mentally ill”, I really would like to know, why Hungary’s ambassador in Norway – the name Jeszenszky – suffers of the same illness..!

    Any suggestions?

    • Leto مؤدّب

      Those scientific studies which have been linked to signal that Mr. Jeszenszky made a good point about the incest problem among Gypsies.
      Any suggestion why you try to ignore these? (Ok, this is just a rhetorical question, of course. I know very well how this goes with postcommie bastards like you.)

      Ceterum censeo MSZP delendum est.

      • SzDSz

        I think this lies should be ignored! It is just racist propaganda!

      • Viking

        Leto مؤدّب says:
        November 1, 2012 at 4:01 pm

        Those scientific studies which have been linked to signal that Mr. Jeszenszky made a good point about the incest problem among Gypsies

        And how have those studies *proved* the connection between the Roma Health situation and cousins marrying each other?

        It is just a theory of explanation, but there is no *proof* for it, then other environmental and social factors have been excluded

        Why are only Roma targeted by this cousin-marrying problem and not the up to 20% of all marriages in the world?

        And what happened to that Fidesz Mayor claiming that Roma expecting mothers hurt their unborn children and that was the reason to the *alleged* higher % children born with problems among Roma, than the average
        Something the State Statistical Authority never could prove in Hungary?

        * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

    • Walacky

      Because your daughter is his mother, and you are the grandpa.

      • Leto مؤدّب

        :D :D

        Ceterum censeo MSZP delendum est.

  • Magyar

    So are these inbred Gypsies equal to Hungarians?

    Why does an anti-racist like Leto even differentiate between Gypsies and Hungarians? Surely we are one and the same, and “Gypsies” are just dark skinned Hungarians?

  • spectator

    “..made a good point about the incest problem among Gypsies”

    – As much I’ve learned, those studies were dealing generally the inbreeding problems in closed communities, and not specifically with the Roma. In this respect the nomad lifestyle of the Gypsies can not yield bigger risk than any other ethnic group – or the aristocracy – if you think about it, and Jeszenszky somehow managed to miss this side of the equation.

    Having published an unfortunate ‘scientific’ thesis is one thing, insisting about that he was right another. While in my opinion it’s plain stupid, this attitude isn’t something what tolerated gladly on the civilized parts of Europe.

    You know, when in a sh*t, stop digging…

    • Leto مؤدّب

      Those studies were done quite specifically about Gypsy communities. Try digging up something similar about non-Gypsy “closed communities” in Europe.
      Yeah, when in s**t, stop digging indeed.

      Ceterum censeo MSZP delendum est.

      • MagyarViking

        Leto مؤدّب says:
        November 1, 2012 at 4:27 pm

        Those studies were done quite specifically about Gypsy communities. Try digging up something similar about non-Gypsy “closed communities” in Europe

        So they were flawed from the beginning…thanks for confirming it

        Other groups in the world that are similar from a scientific point of genetics are the Finnish, French Canadians, and Ashkenazi J*ws
        -http://www.scq.ubc.ca/the-finnish-disease-heritage-and-other-genetic-isolates/

        If you were suppose to prove a point, you do it by *comparison* – compare different, but similar, groups and then apply that on the general public and try to explain what is the difference, that could be the root cause, for the behaviour

        And still, where are all the evidence that cousin marriage creates major problems?

        And all this must be really easy to use the National Stats in Hungary, right?
        So, typical Roma areas have a higher % of children with mental disorders?

        Why was this not proven when that Fidesz Mayor claimed that a couple of years ago?

        Why is not PimpMaster WHorban ordering His Stats Department to publish those figures?

        Because they do not exist…?

        * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

  • wolfi

    It’s funny how Orbán’s rabid kutya aka leto gets more like Whacky Maygar HHadmirer with every posting – as I’ve said before, we can lump them together in one creature …

  • spectator

    Obviously it’s still a rather heavy task for most to comprehend, that the question regarding Jeszenszky isn’t the validity and/or existence of studies regarding the mental illness of any ethnic group, far from it.

    The problem is here that a diplomat with academic degree, representing an – allegedly – democratic European country, allowing himself such remark, and when he confronted, he still insist, that he ‘hasn’t done anything wrong’!

    Just for the record: where I live the year here around is 2012…

    • Magyar

      He simply stated the truth! I know that must be hard for postcommies such as you to comprehend.

      • MagyarViking

        Magyar says:
        November 2, 2012 at 10:18 pm

        He simply stated the truth!

        And which truth was that?

        That 10-20% of the marriages in world today are between cousins?

        That up to 80% of the marriages ever have been between cousins?

        So we are all retarded, then with that type of %, we do have anyone among our relatives who married their cousin, if it is not ourself…

        How big was ‘maygar’s’ choice for partners in his Hungarian village in Slovakia in the 90s, when he was old enough to produce sperms?

        Who was *not* a cousin?

        * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

        • Magyar

          What is utterly disgusting is how you go out of your way to defend, and even promote incest.

          • MagyarViking

            Why?
            It is allowed in Hungary today and was allowed in Hungary yesterday, so what is your problem?

            It was allowed during Hitler, so how can you have a problem?

            You have your poker up your ass more than your favourite Adolf?
            Hhmm, what is that really telling about you…?

            * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

          • Magyar

            There are many things that aren’t illegal, but people don’t do them because of common sense, common decency, morals and plenty of other things that are alien to you.

          • MagyarViking

            Well, Adolf Hitler’s parents were 1st cousins, so what could be wrong with that?

            “Hitler was now legally Pölzl’s first cousin once removed, too close to marry. He submitted an appeal to the church for a humanitarian waiver. Permission came, and on 7 January 1885 a wedding was held at Hitler’s rented rooms on the top floor of the Pommer Inn”
            (-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alois_Hitler)

            So that would then explain Nazism, 3rd Reich and WWII?

            * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

          • MagyarViking

            And Adolf himself, like to screw the daughter of his half-sister:

            “The young woman who paid most dearly for the privilege of becoming the Fuhrer’s mistress was the daughter of his half-sister Angela, the beautiful but rather silly Angelika Raubal, aka Geli. Here we get into the dark realm of incestuous love affairs that is not always pleasant
            Geli was a lively witty young woman and Hitler seemed totake some perverted sadistic pleasure trying to break her.

            Geli and her mother Angela came to Munich in 1924 to tend to Hitler’s household but in 1929 Hitler and Geli moved in a new home and started an affair. According to every testimony, Hitler fell terribly in love with Geli and he developed a rabid jealousy for his niece culminating with Geli being almost imprisoned in semi-seclusion.

            Permanent seclusion, constant jealousy (which tend to be one of the more prevailing and most odious traits of Hitler’s character) and finally, the masochistic obsessions of her uncle/lover pushed Geli to try to escape by being engaged to Emil Maurice, Hitler’s chauffeur, but Hitler thwarted the attempt. Later she had an affair with a Jewish artist who would have made her pregnant. Then she begged Hilter for her freedom

            As soon as 1943, Walter C. Langer pretended that Hitler forced Geli to submit to perverse sexual sessions including defecation and urination. This perversion of Hitler was confirmed by other sources, and notably, by Geli herself who often complained that “Hitler wanted to see me crouched down upon him in order to see everything.””
            (-http://schikelgruber.net/sexbis.html)

            I mean this is the hero of ‘maygar’, screwing his own relatives, being the product of a 1st cousin marriage, so that proves ‘maygar’s’ point, right?

            This is the guy that delivered ‘the best society for ethnic Germans’, according to ‘maygar’
            Well, what is then the small price to pay by taking a shit on the floor, naked?

            * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

      • spectator

        Holalaaa!

        “He simply stated the truth! I know that must be hard for postcommies such as you to comprehend.”

        – So, based on your comment and Jeszenszky’s statement, your parents must be Gypsy siblings too, mustn’t they, that’s the reason of the mental condition of their child – am I right?

        First of all, even if the facts were true regarding the high number of ‘mental illness’ among the Roma, – the minimum requirement from a scholar to name the sources to be controllable somehow absent from the study – contrary to Jeszenszky’s conclusion isn’t ethnic- and/or culture based, but social most of all.

        Otherwise incest must have been an unknown phenomenon among Caucasians, Asians or Africans – which isn’t, as we know. Jeszenszky is obviously wrong, he made a professionally questionable statement, which he reluctant to admit, let alone correct.

        In my opinion – again – this is the real problem, and in this respect to me it is totally irrelevant if he is- or is not racist, or the percentage of the Roma children with dubious lineage.

        Otherwise we should draw the conclusion of the connection between your mental state and your parents relation to each other, too, aren’t we?

        • Magyar

          My mental state is just fine, unlike your liberal disease infested brain.

    • Leto مؤدّب

      Like Népszava (MSZP party newspaper) put it, regardless of scientific papers, “such evil stupidity cannot be said here in Europe in the 21st century. It’s not fit.”
      In other words: it may be true but that doesn’t matter. What matters is the PC taboo.

      On the other hand now I’m beginning to have doubts if I should actually defend Jeszenszky because it’s turned out that Charles Gáti, the “neoliberal” well-poisoner or András Simonyi (US ambassador of the Gyurcsány government ) support him:

      -http://mno.hu/kulfold/nem-akarkik-allnak-ki-jeszenszky-mellett-1115134

      Ceterum censeo MSZP delendum est.

  • Magyar

    Do you have anything other than antifa and anti-nazi propaganda invented to stain the good name of Hitler?

    • Aloof

      Ricsi is right Slovak. No real magyar would even dare say such a thing. What the fuck is wrong with you man? You’re a sick fucking dude son.

    • MagyarViking

      Well, I found your game on Horthy here:
      -http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?423276-The-Horthy-Maddening-%28Hungary-1936%29

      “Horthy jolts back into consciousness. The room’s occupants, having just completed the anthem, are busy clinking glasses and wishing each other good new years. The Admiral stands up and stomps the floor once, twice. Two dozen bureaucrats and nobles turn to him, silenced.

      “My friends,” he says, in his reserved yet commanding soprano, and also in Hungarian, “I have had a dream. Too long has Hungary been the boring second cousin of modern Europe, dismissed as impotent and vaguely ill-tempered. Too long have we spent year after year content with a fraction of the glory we held not even thirty years ago. We made some poor choices back then, without a doubt; chief among them, we trusted Germany. But a day of reckoning is approaching. I have seen it. And if we are to turn this worldwide conflagration into a profitable venture for the Magyar people, we will need to be prepared.””

    • Magyar

      Even though it was a fake post, I still partially agree with it. Millions of lies, rumours have been spread about Hitler, Horthy and all anti-zionists from the 30s and 40s.

      @Aloof, a real Magyar would never say 90% of the American trash that comes out of your mouth.

      @Ricsi, nice fake post.

      PS. Hitler helped us regain Transylvania, South Slovakia, Transcarpathia peacefully, and parts of Vojvodina with a little bit of violence, which scores him extra points in my book.

  • Ricsi

    Shame on you, Magyar. You became even more sadistic than you ever were. You are not a magyar. Every magyar would be ashamed to agree with you.

  • Californicus

    Viking wrote: “Other groups in the world that are similar from a scientific point of genetics are”

    Hey, you forgot Islänningar!

  • Viking

    Magyar says:
    November 3, 2012 at 12:14 am

    There are many things that aren’t illegal, but people don’t do them because of common sense, common decency, morals and plenty of other things that are alien to you

    Oh, not only to me obviously, then even two of The Admiral Horthy’s children married siblings:

    “Admiral Miklós Horthy von Nagybánya was born on 18 June 1868 in Kenderes, Hungary (Jász-Nagykun-Szolnok county). He was married at Arad on 22 July 1901 to Magdolna Purgly de Jószás (1881-1959).

    They had four children:
    Magdolna (1902-1918),
    Paula (1903-1940),
    István (1904-1942), and
    Miklós (1907-1993).

    Now, his son Miklós married Gräfin Consuela Karólyi von Nagykarólyi in 1927, who was a second cousin of Graf Mihály Karólyi von Nagykarólyi;

    his daughter Paula divorced her first husband and married Graf Gyula Karólyi von Nagykarólyi in 1930. Gyula was the younger brother of Consuela”
    (-http://www.oocities.org/veldes1/horthy.html)

    This is exactly what happens among Roma, right?
    By limiting the genetic pool they are creating beasts of the world?
    Just a bunch of Roma…

    * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

    • Magyar

      Do you have anything better to do than spread postcommie propaganda to stain the good name of Horthy?

      • FuckSpamSystem

        Is it true or not that 50% of The Admiral Horthy’s children married ‘the gypsy way’?

        Makes you wonder why…?

        * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

        • Walacky

          If any Gypsy progeny could imporove the country as much as Horthy did, hey, by all means. make them go and screw their own grandma or the little sister, if that is necessírs – and if they stop rampaging the elderly or defenseless in the countryside, that’s a bonus.

          • Boszorkány néni

            Walacky how could you say such a thing! Disgusting!

            My Gypsy crystal ball tells me that you are a racist moron!

      • Ricsi

        Magyar (?) don’t you have anything better to do than buzz around this forum? I bet you don’t have to do any work.

        I am telling you again to be ashamed of yourself. All the honest Hungarians are hard workers.

  • fuckinginterface

    Magyar says:
    November 3, 2012 at 11:33 am

    Hitler helped us regain Transylvania, South Slovakia, Transcarpathia peacefully, and parts of Vojvodina with a little bit of violence, which scores him extra points in my book

    Yes, really a help, then when Hitler was finished, Hungary lost *even* more land in the 1947 Peace Treaty as compared to the 1920 Trianon Treaty

    Way to go!

    Why not annex again, and Hungary will be removed from the map?

    * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

    • Magyar

      “Hungary will be removed from the map?”

      Only in your sick, disgusting dreams.

      • fuckinginterface

        Is it true or not that Hungary 1947 was smaller than Hungary 1920?

        Makes you wonder why…?

        * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

        • Magyar

          Yes, but by a few villages, not by half the country like you make it out to be.

          “Makes you wonder why…?”
          Tell me Viking, why?

          • Viking

            So for those Magyars becoming Slovaks, it was not so important?

            Collateral damage?
            Not worth to defend?

            * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

  • Viking

    Walacky says:
    November 3, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    If any Gypsy progeny could imporove the country as much as Horthy did, hey, by all means. make them go and screw their own grandma or the little sister

    So, you would like to try a Roma For Dictator?
    Anyone in particular you have in mind?

    So, your idea of Moral is that – it is about Double Standards:
    * One Moral for the Populace
    * Another Moral for The Leaders

    No wonder you enjoy Fidesz, they really give you that…

    * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

    • Walacky

      When you will learn that Horthy was not a dictator, but an elected Regent, and under his leadership Hungary successfuly survived Trianon, maybe your usual low-level hatred-fuelled nonsenses will deserve some attention.

      • Californicus

        Lots of dictators got their start being elected.

        • Walacky

          And lots of dictators brush their teeth, like oranges and can whistle. So?

          • Californicus

            Being elected is not the determining factor in whether one is a dictator or not, as you implied. So try writing your sentence, “When will you learn that Horthy was not a dictator, but …” and insert something more substantial.

          • Magyar

            Horthy was not a dictator, Hungary had elections, and Horthy followed the constitution.

  • Liz Aucoin

    You will take absolutely ANYONES word for it if it states something negative about Gypsies. To you facts and realities do not matter. If you read a book written by Mickey Mouse that stated Gypsies were bad, you would go \See…there’s your proof, Gypsies are bad\ It was written in a book! Unfortunately the world allows freaks such as Jezsenszky to write books and governments such as Hungary allows them to be included into the cirriculum. This doesn’t mean they are accurate, sorry to burst your bubble, keep fighting for your cause and hopefully one day people like you will be sitting in a prison cell getting fucked up the ass by your cellmate.

    • Magyar

      “keep fighting for your cause and hopefully one day people like you will be sitting in a prison cell getting fucked up the ass by your cellmate.”

      Since you are Gypsy, the likelihood if you ending up in prison is 100 times greater than it is for me, a law abiding Hungarian.
      Hungarian prisons being 90% Gypsy is a testament to that.

      • Liz Aucoin

        I will never be in prison, you however, your day is coming. It only takes one act to differentiate you as a simple hating Nazi that cannot think for himself, to crossing the line into doing something against the law.

        • Magyar

          “you as a simple hating Nazi that cannot think for himself,”

          I can think for myself, which is why I am not a retarded liberal-zombie like you.

          • Liz Aucoin

            You are such an independent thinker huh? That is why your ramblings are verbatim of that of Jobbik and all hating Nazi’s in Hungary and elsewhere right? As far as me being a liberal…… I won’t take it seriously because you don’t even know what being liberal is in terms of a real democracy. I cannot blame you for that since you have never experienced democracy. When you actually step foot in one let me know.

          • Magyar

            @Postcommie Gypsy.

            “That is why your ramblings are verbatim of that of Jobbik and all hating Nazi’s in Hungary and elsewhere right?”

            Why are all your ramblings the same as the ramblings of SzDSz, MSZP and DK type postcommies? Is it because you are such an independent thinker?

            All you know is what the mainstream (leftist) zs!dómédia taught you. Nothing more, and that is the type of crap you spew.

            I know reality far better than you do, I have ventured outside of the mainstream liberal media that postcommies spoonfeed the population, you have not.

          • Anonymous

            “Why are all your ramblings the same as the ramblings of SzDSz, MSZP and DK type postcommies?”

            Such as?

        • Liz Aucoin

          I would like examples too, since I don’t read their “propoganda” or anything about them. The only reason I read anything that Fidesz or Jobbik says is because they usually are highly publicized. I am not a follower of ANY of the parties in Hungary, I am a follower of peace and equality asshole! My feelings on these issues are my own. I guess it is hard to beleive for someone like you who doesn’t beleive someone can come to their own conclusions on things based on their moral compass. That is why I find you and Leto so funny when you label me a post commie or liberal etc. I am not even a liberal according to Canada either!

          • Magyar

            “I would like examples too, since I don’t read their “propoganda” or anything about them.”

            ALL the things you say is the same as the postcommie garbage you hear from the parties mentioned.

            “My feelings on these issues are my own.”
            Guess what? Mine too!

            “I guess it is hard to beleive for someone like you who doesn’t beleive someone can come to their own conclusions on things based on their moral compass. ”
            I do indeed believe you, again guess what? My beliefs were formed before I got interested in politics and before I even heard of Jobbik.

          • Anonymouse

            Please Mr Magyar. Please show one example to Liz Aucoin. Dont run from woman. Show strenght.

          • Magyar

            ” would not believe a word said by any “Hungarian Romologists”, they do nothing but vilify Roma. Just because some have done it doesn’t mean that it is accepted by all Roma families. This is not something I have ever seen amongst my very very large family and if you think some Roma from “My big fat American Gypsy Wedding” is an example of Roma culture, your are a bigger fool than I thought in the first place. And as far as their statistics on mentally handicapped Roma children, I would never take their assessment on that for the simple fact that Hungarians have made claims about Roma children being mentally handicapped have been false in many cases simply to justify putting them in segregation. Unfounded BS put out there by haters of the Roma. If you want real information, get an unbiased assessment of them, by non-hungarians.”

            There you go, thats more than enough for you.

          • Anonymouse

            Mr Magyar – who say this? Liz Aucoin or DK? Why you don’t show clearly? Show strenght.

          • Magyar

            Oh my good you idiot

            -http://www.politics.hu/20121031/uproar-over-ambassadors-comments-on-roma/#comment-210863

          • Anonymouse

            Mr Magyar – but, where is the same statement from DK? Give it to Liz Aucoin. Show strenght.

    • Walacky

      What a stupid ranting…. sheesh, why don’t you go out somewhere in North-East Hungary or the VIIIth district in Budapest, to experience what these angelic Gypsies are like, instead of shooting off your big mouth here, in safe comfort from real life? You have no idea when the book was published (in 2009 – before the current government, fucksake, you can’t even spell Jeszenszky’s name), and it tells all about your sense of freedom to expect that the government should regulate what books are taught from at universities. Just how big space does that censor occupy in

      • Magyar

        Walacky, my ancestry is from North East Hungary(Borsod) and South East Slovakia (Gömör),and in those places the situation is pretty much the same, and it is where I spent a lot of my life.

        Now these people, usually talking from the comfort zones of their Canadian haven who have never been to these areas think they know all about it, while I am the “ignorant” one, despite me having daily experiences with these “angelic gypsies”, while they have 0.

        I have often told them to visit those areas, but for some reason they never did, care to guess why?

        • Liz Aucoin

          My dad was born there, Nyirbator to be precise! Also, when I lived there I lived in Halasztelek and went to school in Csepel and worked in the VIII district. Don’t tell me what I know or don’t know. BTW there are many Roma that have integrated there and simply are afraid to ever admit they are Roma. It is because of assholes like you that they hide their ethnicity to avoid being lumped in with all the others. You have no interest about which ones have integrated and have done well with themselves. If you knew they were Roma, everything would be taken away. You guys keep insisting that because I live in Canada now, that I have always lived here. Typical of ignorant people. Sorry, this Gypsy girl is educated and worldly and I don’t bow down to losers like you! School books are regulated by government you idiot, otherwise, they would be educated in fairy tales like they are in Hungary!

  • Magyar

    “Sorry, this Gypsy girl”
    Didn’t you deny that you were gypsy a while ago? LOL

    “re afraid to ever admit they are Roma.”
    If they are “integrated”, why would they need to admit that they are Gypsy?
    Also, it doesn’t matter if they admit that they are a gypsy or not, if they are indeed Gypsy, it is visible on them.

    “School books are regulated by government ”
    Exactly, but the liberal government you moron.
    You are the dumb ignorant one, you think because its approved by your government you think its 100% correct? ahahah

    “Such as?”
    All the liberal vomit that comes out of your mouth, so pick any random post of yours, and there you go.

    • Anonymouse

      “All the liberal vomit that comes out of your mouth, so pick any random post of yours, and there you go.”

      You said Liz Aucoin post is the same as DK. Please state one and show they are the same?

  • Liz Aucoin

    I have never denied my Gypsy heritage, I may have said I am half since my mother was Canadian. Unless you are referring to the time you called me a filthy gypsy whore (which I am not) Unlike what you believe, Roma people don’t always fit your cookie cutter image of them. All governments regulate their text books you moron! Also, because I do live in a true democracy, if there was ever false statements or racist studies pushed onto our kids in school, there would be heads rolling down the street of our government officials. We do not want our kids taught to hate based on stupidity!

  • DoubleH63

    @Liz Aucoin

    ”they hide their ethnicity”

    Now, there is an easy task :)

    “If you knew they were Roma, everything would be taken away.”

    By whom, Farkas Flórián, with his hidden criminal history? [Thank you Zsidesz.]
    Just to get back to one of your earlier lies – how is that guy doing in prison for wearing a red star? [You know, the one with the 18 months prison sentence for it; while half of the Hungarians… sorry, non-Roma – that’s what we are called nowadays – prancing around with swastikas and nobody is doing anything about it.]

  • DoubleH63

    @Liz Aucoin

    “Jezsenszky to write books and governments such as Hungary allows them to be included into the cirriculum.”

    [I will not say anything about how you spell names or words – in one sentence -, let’s say it’s a typo (we are all guilty of that now and then).]

    But your newest lie about books and curriculum is just amazing. How can you make up so much shit in every one of your posts? Must be that high “education” and being a successful “business woman”.

    “they would be educated in fairy tales like they are in Hungary!”

    For once you are right, [although I think this one might achieve universal proportion once it gets out].
    I hope you have heard about the fairy tale how the German monsters were giving poisoned milk to Gypsy babies in Hungary. No? You should read about it.

  • Viking

    Walacky says:
    November 3, 2012 at 5:49 pm

    When you will learn that Horthy was not a dictator, but an elected Regent

    In a Free and Democratic Election, right?

    “Instead of open military dictatorship, Horthy chose a less perilous course, which nevertheless safeguarded just as effectively his and the army’s carefully constructed central position in Hungary’s political life. He did not oppose formation of a coalition government was temporarily satisfied with remaining somewhat in the background. Contrary to his promise during the Clerk negotiations, however, he refused to permit any interference in army affairs or a curtailment of the army’s police powers by either the ministry of defense or the ministry of interior. Thus, while retaining control of the army and slowly increasing its strength, he gained additional time to organize a political bloc that was willing to back his candidacy for regent of the state”

    “To intimidate the population Horthy increasingly relied on the army’s political section or, as it was called, the ” national defense” sector. This was in effect an elaborate spy network crisscrossing the country, reaching all the way down to the village level. Its functions were: supervising all political organizations, reporting on the mood of the people, observing state officials, supervising all publications and their circulation, maintaining clandestine postal censorship, preventing circulation of opposition papers of Budapest in the countryside, and finally, aiding the organization and operation of Gömbös’s MOVE”

    “The judiciary was also under intense pressure from both the government and the army to participate in the reprisals, in the process of intimidation. The regular judicial process was suspended, the rights of the accused greatly curtailed, the appeals procedure was made difficult”

    “The government issued the internment edict on December 5, 1919. All those individuals who were considered “dangerous” or “suspected to be dangerous,” as well as those who were believed to be “damaging to the economy of the country,” were ordered to be deported to the villages with all their dependents and kept there under close police surveillance”
    (-http://www.hungarianhistory.com/lib/mocsy/mocsy18.htm)

    * The Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News Agency MTI lies to us using tax payers money

  • Paul

    Source CNN:

    And in Hungary¸ the discriminatory attitudes of the far-right party Jobbik has allegedly on more than one occasion stoked intimidation and violence against Roma communities. This included in August, when police were accused of standing by while some 1,000 people on a march organized by Jobbik and vigilante groups violently attacked the homes of Roma families living in the western village of Devecser.

    It is imperative for governments across Europe – at the local, national and EU levels – to set about changing public attitudes and policies that fuel the ongoing human rights violations against the Roma. EU member states have yet to follow through on promises made in Brussels earlier this year to improve the lives of Roma children, women and men – the EU Commission must weigh in and make things right.

    During the opening of the Roma Holocaust memorial, German Chancellor Merkel paid an emotional tribute to the victims, stating that: “Every single fate in this genocide is a suffering beyond understanding. Every single fate fills me with sorrow and shame.”

    Commemorating the horrendous abuses suffered by Roma during the Holocaust is a key step, but Europe’s politicians must also be ashamed about the racism and discrimination that continues to affect millions of Roma today.

    • Magyar

      Blah blah blah, do you have anything else other than lies and filthy liberal garbage?

      When a filthy Gypsy beheads an elderly woman and her husband you barely ever hear about it, but when a Hungarians looks at a Roma in the wrong way its international news.

      Double standards anyone?

      • Ricsi

        agyar, wipe your foaming mouth.

        • Ricsi

          Sorry, I meant my own mouth…
          agyar, magyar, kanyar… it’s all the same to me at the moment… I just came from Ákos… Wow! What a stud even at that age… Gave me a load, I could barely handle – nothing alattvaló about him, no foreskin to stop the flow.

    • Walacky

      I am shocked – some people got intimidated. My, that’s terrible. Now how about those helpless and defenseless elderly folks in villages who are terrorized on a daily basis, by the intimidated Gypsy minority? Or the relatives of the teacher who got lynched by a murderous Gypsy mob, in front of his two underage daughters, in Olaszliszka?

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