May 8th, 2013

Fidesz MEPs accuse EP committee of trying to “colonize Hungary” with report (includes document)

Draft Report on the Situation of Fundamental Rights in Hungary

Fidesz MEPs on Tuesday slammed a draft report issued by a European parliamentary committee which suggested possible grounds for setting in motion the “nuclear option” of Article 7 against Hungary.

Kinga Gal, a Hungarian MEP for the ruling Fidesz party, branded the report by the Committee on Civil Liberties, Justice and Home Affairs (LIBE) “completely unacceptable”.

Rapporteur Rui Tavares’s 31-page report contains factually unfounded statements and diverges from the truth in many instances, Gal said.

Tavares’s report was tantamount to a call on the Hungarian government to reverse everything that had happened in Hungary since 2010, she said.

The draft report says Hungary risks seriously breaching European Union values to the extent that the so-called “nuclear option” of Article 7 may be activated.

Tavares argued there was a clear risk of a serious breach by Hungary of the common values referred to in EU Treaty Article 2. The first stage of the Article 7 procedure should be launched if replies from the Hungarian authorities to his report’s recommendations fail comply with Article 2 requirements, he said.

Gal said the report applied double standards towards Hungary and it called on the LIBE to postpone a discussion of the report until it is amended to reflect a comparison of Hungary’s practices with those of other EU countries. Citing passages on the constitutional court review and church recognition, she said the report makes demands on Hungary that could be made of other countries too.

The Fidesz European parliamentary group issued a statement on Tuesday declaring the report “an attempt to constitutionally colonise Hungary”. It said Hungary’s parliament and people would be placed under “direct orders” and “international guardianship,” if the report’s findings were enforced, and branded it an “unprecedented left-liberal political ultimatum”.

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  • Aloof

    LMFAO… these Fidesz cretins are a fucking scream. This BS will go over well to the retarded sheep that constitute the Fidesz “nation” but people outside Hungary have had enough of these corrupt lying assholes.
    Leave the EU or STFU for the 20th millionth time. OV says Hungary stands on it’s own 2 legs already so what are you waiting for?

    • Xyz

      Why should we leave ? let the others leave:)

      • Aloof

        Who is we?

    • NotAFideszVoter

      What an articulate way to make the point that FIdesz are cretins and … well
      LOL

  • MagyarViking

    The Fidesz European parliamentary group issued a statement on Tuesday… It said Hungary’s parliament and people would be placed under “direct orders” and “international guardianship,”

    Ahh, finally they get it!
    Good, then that seems to be the only option left, if not Whorban leaves the EU, which he has the full right to do, since the so hated Lisbon Treaty went into force
    Everyone knows now where the door is…

    If nothing else, let the 2014 Hungarian Parliamentary Elections be about if Hungary should stay inside the EU, or leave
    Let the Hungarian voters decide!

    And then stop complaining and stand up to the consequences, regardless the outcome

  • Paul

    “Kinga Gal, a Hungarian MEP for the ruling Fidesz party, branded the report by the Committee on Civil Liberties, Justice and Home Affairs (LIBE) “completely unacceptable”.

    Good news!……so…don’t accept it, okay?

    “The draft report says Hungary risks seriously breaching European Union values to the extent that the so-called “nuclear option” of Article 7 may be
    activated”.

    Great birthday present, thanks!!!!

    Love to see the EU is taking their values so seriously.

    • Leto مؤدّب

      “Great birthday present, thanks!!!!”

      LOL

      Vow, is this a great birthday present for you? :D How pathetic of you!

  • Zeb

    “An attempt to constitutionally colonise Hungary”. Isn’t that what the EU Grand Scheme is all about in the first place? A supranationonal organization, mostly unelected which thinks it knows best.

    We know Fidesz loves its hyperbole, but “unprecedented left-liberal political ultimatum” is hardly correct. The EU fuckers already threatened Italy and had their own technocrat installed, Mario Monti, and Ireland and Spain have been threatened too, and of course most recently Cyprus. Let me use the straw man argument too: Fidesz is wrong about this, so they must be wrong about everything. Jeez, that’s child’s play.

    • just saying

      “mostly unelected”

      Do you not live in Europe? If so, you should know more about the EU. There are elections for the European Parliament, and it, in turn, elects the European Commission, which is comprised of one Commissioner nominated by every member state’s national government and the European Council, which is comprised of the head of state or head of government of each member state, plus the President of the . The only non-elected people in the EU (or at least not chosen by elected representatives) are the civil servants in the European Commission, but they must follow the orders of the College of Commissioners, the 27 Commissioners I mentioned before (just like the civil service of any government).

      Yes, the EU is supranational, but why is that a problem? Because of that, it has far fewer powers than an actual national government, and can only govern with the consent of all of its member states. If there is a state that is unhappy with the way it is treated by the EU, it can leave, no questions asked. Fideszx should do so if it feels it can do better outside the EU. Many, many countries are still trying to get in, regardless of how “unelected” you wrongly think it is.

      • just saying

        that should read “President of the European Council”, not “President of the”, sorry

    • MagyarViking

      People who complaint about the EU consists of “mostly unelected” representatives, are normally the ones who refuse to increase the role of the directly elected European Parliament (EP) and let the EP elect the European Commision (EC), which of course mean that the today 27 member states national Parliaments, through their Governments, gets less to say about

      But if your problem is the lack of directly elected representatives, then that is the way to go…

      • just saying

        The entire Commission must be approved by the EP, en masse, and if it votes against it, there must be changes. Therefore, while not exactly directly elected, there is democratic oversight. Besides, the elected governments of each member state are the ones who choose their Commissioners, so that’s still democracy, in my book.

        • MagyarViking

          I agree
          My post was more to show the doubble-talk of the anti-EU Mafia that on one side complaints about “unelected representatives”, meaning not directly elected, while having no problem with let us say how the Hungarian President is elected

          These people do though have a major problem each time the European Parliament strengthen its role, which naturally can only be done on the behalf of the national Parliaments, then these double-talkers knows that a more stronger European Parliament would lead down the road to a more Federal EU, and that the hate

          So, these double-talkers takes the route of always complaining, whatever

          Personally I would like to see the role of the European Parliament strengthen and where the European Commission would be solely elected by the European Parliament
          I do not at the moment believe in direct elections for a European President, but that may come later, when the new, by the European Parliament elected, “EU Government” has worked a decade or so and when leading European politicians has presented themselves for the people, so we just not have a popular contest based on citizenship

          A strengthen role for the European Parliament will undoubtedly lead to that the better politicians “Go Brussels” and that would strengthen the EU as a whole
          Let 3rd rate politicians, like Whorban, stay in the local backwaters

          • just saying

            Those are all good points. I would only differ in that I believe individual states should have more rights to decide on local issues (such as the curvature of bananas and the pasteurization of cheese), and that more direct democracy would be more likely to strengthen the EU, overall. Something needs to be done about the perception, legitimate or not, that there is a “democracy deficit” in the EU. The Euroskeptics are gaining power, thanks to the credit crisis and downturn, and are creating the reality through perception.

  • Freeman

    Fidesz MEPs accuse EP committee of trying to “colonize Hungary”
    “an attempt to constitutionally colonise Hungary”
    Well good morning idiots, what do you think the whole EU & her constitution is all about and why do you think it was renamed Lisbon Treaty and why were the Irish forced to vote on it again after a ‘No’ vote. It’s conquering by deceit and intimidated consent…reminds me of taxation and the social contract and catholic baptism and the mafia too.

    By the way what do you think your birth certificate is?
    A successful attempt to bodily colonize the individual. You see if you don’t even own your own body…
    The parallels between the EU colonizing the nation States and how those States ‘colonized’ the individual is just astonishing.

    • Vidra

      All freedom is relative. None of us should be free to do things that harm others and the risk of that happening is the reason the EU is worried about Orbán.

      • Freeman

        Do you even know what freedom is, have you ever asked the question freedom FROM WHAT? All these idiot’s who down-voted me and up-voted you are retarded and know nothing about freedom. Freedom to hurt others is not freedom to the guy getting hurt, freedom is universal and absolute, not relative. Power-tripping and controlling others is relative.

        • Vidra

          What is your point, caller 1? I could bore the arse off everybody (even you) with the difference between positive and negative freedom and the differences in philsophy between European and American rulings on freedom but it wouldn’t alter the fact that the EU suspects that Orbán is infringing the freedoms of many of its citizens to a degree beyond that permissible under European law.

          • Freeman

            “the difference between positive and negative freedom”
            “European and American rulings on freedom”
            Which part of ‘universal’ is hard to understand?

            “Orbán is infringing the freedoms”
            True, just as every other politician does.

            “beyond that permissible under European law”
            The EU constitution is illegal they ignored the votes multiple times, but I guess law doesn’t apply if it comes to the EU, talk about hypocracy.

          • Vidra

            Your point isn’t hard to understand, just hard to apply to the real world. And until the EU rules on Orbán’s antics we don’t know which directives they believe he has broken and therefore whether the EU constitution/Lisbon Treaty/Pragmatic Sanction of Bourges/What a Hell is relevant or not.

          • Freeman

            “Your point isn’t hard to understand, just hard to apply to the real world.”
            I agree as I said moral and intelligent people deserve and get freedom not control-freaks, that is just an observable natural law.

            “the EU constitution is relevant or not.”
            Well how does the saying go? An unconstitutional law is not a law at all…well a ‘consentless’ constitution is no constitution at all that’s why it became a treaty, which didn’t get the consent either, until the Irish were bullied… the rest of Europe wasn’t even asked. So no, the Lisbon Treaty is not relevant, it’s not a treaty, it’s a declaration of domination.

          • just saying

            “moral and intelligent people deserve and get freedom”

            So you’re saying that everyone who does not have freedom is not moral? You should explain that one, keeping in mind all of the perfectly moral people who have had their freedom taken away by force.

            “a treaty, which didn’t get the consent either, until the Irish were bullied… the rest of Europe wasn’t even asked”

            In law, if a person is silent on a matter, that equals consent. If any country felt “bullied” or “not asked”, that country has the right to step up and say no (or its voters can vote their democratically elected government out of office and replace it with a government that would say no). None of that happened. If Ireland was really “bullied”, why did it stay in the EU? Is it being blackmailed? I never saw any evidence of that. It knew that staying in the EU was the smart thing to do, economically, but if principle is important to the people of Ireland, then I’m sure they would’ve stood up in this case.

            The Lisbon treaty was ratified by the democratically elected governments of all the member states. Anyone who says differently should do more research, then come back with some proof.

          • just saying

            “The EU constitution is illegal they ignored the votes multiple times, but I guess law doesn’t apply if it comes to the EU”

            You obviously know nothing about EU law. The laws were followed, nothing illegal happened. There is an argument that there should be a referendum in every country for the Lisbon Treaty, but every country’s democratically elected government ratified it. so the law is upheld, with at least the minimum amount of democracy needed.

    • just saying

      “it was renamed Lisbon Treaty”

      The Lisbon Treaty is very different, and less comprehensive, than the proposed constitution. Where is the deceit? Everything is spelled out very clearly, and Hungary has many elected representatives in the European Parliament, while Orbán himself sits as an equal in the European Council (like the “presidency” of the EU), and there is a Hungarian who was named by the (democratically elected) Hungarian government as one of the 27 members of the European Commission.

      If Fidesz has a problem with the way it is being treated by the EU, in which it has a vote and a major say in how things are done, then it can leave, no problem. Where is the colonisation, exactly?

      A birth certificate does nothing other than record a birth. If you think there is some sort of magical power that the government holds over a person with that piece of paper, you might want to cut back on the hallucinogenics.

    • MagyarViking

      “By the way what do you think your birth certificate is?”

      The ticket to become the President of the USA?

      • Freeman

        Kenyan root is CIA cover, he is the kid of a commie, Frank Marshall Davis, for intro to the subject watch “Dreams from my real father” then start digging.

        • Vidra

          Lots of vapour trails over Hungary these days too. Is there a link between them and continued support for Fidesz?

          • Freeman

            What does this have to do with fidesz…oh I used the word commie so in your mind I’m automatically a right-winger, very sophisticated thought-processes you got there Mr. blockhead, but hey your head was stuck in a box while you were growing up so who can blame you.

          • Vidra

            Barking up the wrong tree again. I don’t think you’re any more or less right-wing than any other conspiracy-theory loving crackerjack and vapour trails and Obama’s birth history are perennial posts on such “alternative sites”. Those who believe that the vapour trails are part of a conspiracy (CIA? Illuminati? Mossad? Justin Bieber Fan Club?) seem to attribute all kinds of bizarre and irrational behaviour to it, and what’s more bizarre than such dog-like devotion to Orbán?.

          • Freeman

            First, I refuse the implications of me being at the level of a dog you supremacist trash.

            Second, if you weren’t an ignorant intellectually coward fool you would actually figure out with public and later declassified documents which “conspiracy theory” is actually fact or what part of a theory is fact, but hey you rather wait for a criminal who’s sitting in the judge’s seat at his own trial to admit he is guilty…well good luck with that, the same guy told you about conspiracy theories surrounding him, yeah now that is a lame source for objective truth about him.

            Third, I don’t give a damn about your nincompoop cowardly intellectually lazy ways of applying ad hominem attacks and guilt by association logical fallacies to smear me.

            Fourth, “conspiracy theories” are non-partisan, you can’t even get that basic
            fact right. But hey I guess Bush having fake WMDs as a reason to invade
            Iraq is a right-wing conspiracy theory too, ignoramus.

          • Vidra

            My comment about “dog-like devotion” was directed at those who unquestioningly follow Fidesz.

            You started the thread getting personal, though, so if you can’t take it then don’t dish it out.

            And yes I knowingly use logical fallacies to parody and poke fun.

            Conspiracy theories ARE partisan, in that they all represent authority, moving behind the curtain, versus the “little man”. I’m not saying it’s your motivation, but it’s clear that many peddlers use them as proof that all government is bad and the difference between Obama, Saddam Hussein and Orbán is trivial. The logical extension to that is that it’s pointless opposing any of them, as you’ll just end up with more of the same if they’re overthrown.

          • Freeman

            “And yes I knowingly use logical fallacies to parody and poke fun.”

            So all is coming from you is hot air, thanks for admitting it.

          • Vidra

            I prefer to use facts and reasoned argument but you need to have a bigger toolkit to keep some dialogues going.

  • Democrat

    This report is a pretty good summary of what has happened here over the last couple of years. Comparisons with other countries is just more FIDESZ bluster. The issue here is the sheer mass of dubious moves which have been made in dubious ways. That, combined with the truculent manner of FIDESZ when challenged. The EU is getting fed-up. And 80+% of the electorate think things are going the wrong way. Time for change. No need to wait until the election. The latest tobacco corruption scandal and the new FOIA should make it clear to observers and voters alike that FIDESZ simply do not care about anything other than enriching themselves at the expense of others. I recall that after Orban won the election he was at pains to say that he would be PM for all the people, not just for those who voted for him……probably his first lie. Many more have followed.

    • Paul

      Pathological liars like VO have one big problem. In the rare occasion they do tell the truth, no one believes them anyway.

  • Paul

    “Recommendations to the Hungarian Authorities
    Urges the Hungarian authorities to implement the following recommendations
    without any further delay, with a view to fully restoring the rule of law and its
    key requirements on the constitutional setting, the system of checks and balances and the independence of the judiciary, as well as strong safeguards for undamental rights,including freedom of expression, media and religion and the right to property”.

    without any further delay!!!

    WOW…devastating report.
    So many issues to be resolved. Fidez (which is completely
    politically corrupt) doesn’t belong within the EU even close.

  • oneill

    “The Fidesz European parliamentary group issued a statement on Tuesday declaring the report “an attempt to constitutionally colonise Hungary”. ”
    Well, then, it is your duty to put the issue to the nation-.
    “We think they are being weally nasty to our Beloved Leader and his 20 Year Reich, do you want to leave the EU or not?”
    They won’t because like the rest of their joke of a party, they are corrupt and spineless cowards.

  • Enough’s Enough

    European politics is a game. Until Fidesz learns to play the game, Hungary will be in the EU’s crosshairs. It’s just a fact, right or wrong. They don’t like Orban. They despise him and think he is an amateur, wannabe tinpot dictator that wants to rule a third rate country. Whether that’s true is irrelevant. Fidesz needs to hire non-Hungarians to represent Hungary in Brussels. People who can pass on their message in a way non-Hungarians can understand. The problem with this “superior Hungarian intellect” is that if no one understands it, they just think you’re an idiot. Or a corrupt megalomaniac.

    • Aloof

      WTF is “superior Hungarian intellect” and please pray tell give us all examples of it over the last 150 years?

  • stanlee98

    The colonization of Hungary is a fact. Voters still have a choice to get out of the ditch: Jobbik.

    • just saying

      You have a real misunderstanding of the word “fact”. You are confusing it with “your opinion”. Plus, Fidesz will take Hungary out of the EU eventually, too, so have no worry – the ensuing economic collapse that you crave is coming. I think you drastically overestimate the ability of Jobbik to capitalize on it, though. This is not the 1930’s, and people have already seen what happens when the Fascists take over.

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