June 4th, 2013

Hungarian justice minister blasts EC commissioner Reding for “extreme bias against Hungary”

Justice Minister Tibor Navracsics on Monday criticised European justice commissioner Viviane Reding for “extreme bias against Hungary” reflected by her recent statements published in Austrian daily Der Standard.

“Viviane Reding’s latest attack on Hungary in the Austrian daily Der Standard not only shows extreme bias against Hungary, but also ignorance of the history of her own country’s constitution,” according to a ministry statement.

While Reding has condemned Hungary for the constitutional amendments, “Luxembourg – the Commissioner’s native country – amended its constitution twelve times between 2003 and 2009, and six times in the six months between December 1988 and June 1989,” the statement said.

“Therefore we would ask the Commissioner to examine her own country’s constitutional history before expressing an opinion on constitutional issues in other countries,” it added.

Reding accused Prime Minister Viktor Orban of “systematically” playing around with Hungary’s constitution in the liberal daily Der Standard. “A constitution is not a toy that one can change every few months,” she said in the interview.

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  • Paul

    “ Tibor Navracsics ’s latest attack on European justice commissioner Viviane Reding published on the governments website not only shows extreme bias against the EU and the values of rule of law, democracy and human rights which they defend, but also ignorance of the history of the EU’s European Convention on Human Rights”.

    Jesus Maria…I mean…this is it?
    This is the strategy?

    And of course, but everyone knows already….this is not an attack on Hungary at all. But on the Fidesz authoritarian regime.
    Not by left-wing, liberals and greens only…but by all democrats.

    And Tibor….nothing better to do? BTW: you forgot to attack José Manuel Barroso who is supervising this issue.

    • newsreader

      You don’t even have the capacity and/or human decency to quote someone correctly …. what a pathological loser …

    • Dr. Strange

      Statement from President Lech Kaczynski Academic Civic Clubs in Poznan,
      Krakow, Warszawa, Łodz in support of the open letter to
      Europe’s citizens issued by Hungarian intellectuals

      We, members of the academic community assembled
      in the Academic Civic Clubs (AKO) want to express our solidarity with
      the Hungarian intellectuals – signatories of the open letter “To
      Europe’s citizens”. We fully support the letter – both its dramatic form
      and the painful accuracy with which it depicts the present situation of
      Hungary.

      We admire our Hungarian brethren for their determination and courage in the restoration of the Christian values, which we also cherish and which, we feel, are similarly threatened in our country.

      We strongly condemn and express our protest against the slander campaign directed at Hungary. The vilification of today’s Hungary
      consists in misleading the public opinion with falsehood and lies
      depicting the nonexistent threats to democracy, and in propagating fear
      about the coalition parties ruling Hungary today. This coalition, it
      must be remembered, was democratically elected in a landslide victory in
      2010. Many journalists, also those from public media, conceal the
      preeminent fact that the present government has rescued the country from
      its dire economic predicament and massive unemployment that were
      physically threatening the existence of the Hungarian nation. Among the
      critics and hostile reviewers of the government there are individuals
      directly responsible for bringing Hungary to the brink of economic
      collapse. It is deplorable that when they were in power, there was no
      condemnation of their irresponsible policies from European governments,
      EU agencies or the European Commission.

      Not only journalists, but
      also the European Commission does take actions which are an intrusion
      into the realm of ethical and moral principles – something the
      Commission is neither authorised nor competent to do. Justifying such
      actions by the alleged violations by the Hungarian authorities of
      tolerance or European values is not corroborated by facts. Building the
      life of a nation on the foundation of Christianity is a guarantee of
      highest possible standards in the work of both the government and the
      parliament, while hard work, fair democracy, national independence,
      tolerance and mutual understanding are capable of miraculous things. It
      is Christianity that two thousand years of European tradition and law
      making are based upon and that provides the best possible model for the
      shaping of relations between people.

      Following our Hungarian brothers and sisters, we hereby
      appeal for the content of their letter to be publicised and witness be
      given to the truth. The current actions by journalists, agencies of
      European governments and of the European Commission not only paint a
      false picture, but may also – as pointed out in the Hungarian open
      letter – be a threat to the independence and sovereignty of a free
      nation. Indeed, they are a danger to the foundations of the European
      Union and European civilisation as such, undermining their cultural,
      social and economic cohesion and jeopardising the course of European
      integration.

      The great effort made by the Hungarian society to
      resolve their social and economic problems should win them respect and
      trust and be supported by people of good will all over the world. We
      heartily congratulate our Hungarian brothers and sisters on their
      success to date, their empowerment and struggle. We wish them courage
      and perseverance in the implementation of the values they share in
      public life.

      We also wish you, our Hungarian brothers and sisters,
      an active support from free European nations of your praiseworthy
      endeavours to develop your country and make it a better place.

      Poznan, 7 May 2013

      May you be successful and victorious!
      AKO Chairman
      Professor Stanislaw Mikolajczak

  • newsreader

    Redding is simply an incompetent, scheming, power-hungry climber.

  • Aloof

    Well there might be hypocrisy in the EU but the hypocrisy in Hungary is legendary bud. Besides, like Justasking says this broad must be a man hating lesbian. Seems like OV attracts these type of broads like flypaper.

    Frankly I’m already tired of this back and forth, to and fro and 20th variation of the same story. Time to get all of this crap settled.

    Anytime you’re ready to talk about “double-standards” let ‘er rip bud. That will take us right back to the subject of hypocrisy.

    • newsreader

      I love it when people post a comment and immediately ‘evaluate’ their comment and vote for themselves … I watched you doing that … how petty …

      • Aloof

        I can’t vote “thumbs up/down” for myself or anyone else dipshit because I don’t register for that very reason so some dumb shit like you can’t accuse me of it.
        I “vote” with my comments and don’t give a flying fuck about “thumbs up or down.”

        • newsreader

          “I can’t vote “thumbs up/down” for myself or anyone else dipshit because I don’t register for that very reason so some dumb shit like you can’t accuse me of it.”

          Idiotic liar.

          • Paul

            “Idiotic liar”
            Hey….newsreader…my wife is following the conversation…she voted Aloof up…and….(sigh)…she doesn’t want to vote for me. She says it is not ethical. (smile)..well, I agree.

            Getting paranoid newsreader?

            Now apologise to Aloof please.

    • Guru

      You’re right. These animals (the good old Barrosso/Reding/Schulz/ Cohn-Bendit camp) should stop firing blanks. The EDP was one strongsuit until it was magically voted down! This CoE “opinion” is the last major shot they have. It was miserably voted down by the Buro and barely passed the other one. After this faceplants at the plenary meeting this month, maybe these excuses for statesmen will shut up for a bit

      • Paul

        Barrosso/Reding/Schulz/ Cohn-Bendit camp

        Aaaand…Quote Angela Merkel:
        “would do everything to put Hungary in the right direction”.
        EVERYTHING

        And also….an enormous list of others. (Human Rights Watch, Transparency International, Foreign Minister Michael Spindelegger of Austria, PM Mark Rutte…..sigh etc. etc.)
        Keep un underestimating the situation….ANIMAL

        • Guru

          hahaha keep thinking the EU will do something against Fidesz. It won’t because democracy is not at stake, contrary to what you communists want to believe.

          • MagyarViking

            “It won’t because democracy is not at stake”

            Well, just read the conclusion of the Venice Commissions leaked draft report and you will see that they do not agree with you:
            http://www.politics.hu/20130604/justice-minister-says-reding-biased-against-hungary-after-accusing-orban-of-playing-with-constitution/#comment-918474325

          • Guru

            The report which managed to not wait for the initial response of the government and chose instead to be “accidentally leaked”? I’m sure it does! Please…How many previous Venice Commission reports were “accidentally leaded”? Anyone with a brain can see right through that.

          • MagyarViking

            “Anyone with a brain can see right through that”
            Anyone with an *Hungarian* brain, yes

            The rest of us more believe in this statement from the Venice Commision:
            “A Venice Commission spokeswoman acknowledged to The Wall Street Journal that the document was published due to human error and taken off the site after a few hours. The leaked draft doesn’t reflect the commission’s opinion, the spokeswoman said, as the document will be discussed and amended before and at the commission’s plenary session in Venice June 14-15.”
            http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20130531-705802.html

          • Guru

            OF COURSE they’re going to say that, why would they not? I knew a simple “sorry” would be out of the question even though this move may cost Hungary dearly! They fucked up, and you still put it on Orban? You have no integrity.

          • Paul

            “you communists”???

            Oh my…..and you still do not
            grasp that your credibility is going down the drain right away, when you say these stupid things without even a shred of evidence?

          • Guru

            But here I was genuinely worried about my credibility in your eyes :/

            If you support the likes of Gyurcsany or Bajnai then that’s all the evidence needed by Hungarians to see what you truly are. I don’t mean to burst this bubble you seem to be living in (with a few others on this website), but the good majority of Hungarians hate Gyurcsany and Bajnai and the zombies like you who praise them.

          • Paul

            “If you support the
            likes of Gyurcsany or Bajnai”…

            And where oh where did I say
            I support them?

            Out of bad choices I would
            slightly prefer Bajnai above the mini-dictator.

            I am not even able to
            vote….would not care too much either.

            I am very much opposed to an
            authoritarian, corrupt Fidesz government within the EU
            though. Because…like, by far, most decent people….I am in
            favour of democracy. That is it….and it is a lot.

            So……the reason why I
            am here….I think this anti democratic Fidesz crony system

            is disgusting.

          • Guru

            Okay so you’re an idealist: It’s either Orban, Bajnai/Mesterhazy, Schiffer, Vona or Gyurcsany on the polls next year, so if you vote who do you choose (in general if you can vote)? Or do you decide to play the 7 year-old game of not voting and still complaining afterwards about a system which you came to not do anything about when you had the chance?

          • Paul

            I vote for Mark Rutte.

          • Guru

            Fabulous answer.

          • Paul

            “Fabulous answer”…..not really.
            So since you asked:

            A caretaker government, right now, would be the best option, me thinks.

            Considering the facts that:

            -No Hungarian government can survive outside the EU.

            -Fidesz/Hungary has a constitution which is not complying with the rules of democracy, a proven fact by experts.

            -It has to change completely, once again, for Hungary to be able to stay within the EU.

            -No EU statesman or politician can ignore this any longer.

            -Changing the Hungarian constitution to be in accordance with EU law can not be trusted on Fidesz.

            Soooo….sigh….no other options available.

            A caretaker government.

          • Guru

            Which part of the constitution exactly is so against the rules of democracy, as your doomsday hypothesis supposes?

          • Paul

            “Which part of the constitution exactly is so against the
            rules of democracy, as your doomsday hypothesis supposes?”
            Well I trust on experts. They studied the stuff for over a year.

            For example the Report of the Venice
            Commission on the Hungarian Constitution:

            The members of the Commission (the Austrian Christoph Grabenwarter, the German
            Wolfgang Hoffmann-Riem, the Polish Hanna Suchocka, the Finnish Kaarlo
            Tuori, and the Belgian Jan Velaers) consider the fourth amendment no
            more than a “political declaration” that “aims at the
            perpetuation of the political power of the current government.”

            “aims at the perpetuation of the political power of the current government.”

            Which means…..the Fidesz/Hungarian
            constitution is nothing else than…eh….garbage which only serves the Fidesz crony capitalism…while a legitimate constitution would protect the rights of ALL Hungarians…not only Fidesz cronies.

          • Guru

            So….let’s try this again: which part of the Constitution can you point out that offends democratic rules?

          • Paul

            So….let’s try this again….

            “aims at the perpetuation of the political power of the current government.”

            Which means…..the Fidesz/Hungarian
            constitution is nothing else than…eh….garbage which only serves the Fidesz crony capitalism…while a legitimate constitution would protect the rights of ALL Hungarians…not only Fidesz cronies.

          • Guru

            Hmm, please point to the part of the Constitution which says “One is only protected under this Law of the Land as long as he supports Fidesz”. Please God just point it out! Or are you just a typical brainwashed zombie? Probably.

          • Aloof

            “contrary to what you communists want to believe”

            Sigh… not ANOTHER fucking one… The ONLY communists that post here are Hungarian born and bred ones bud. You’ve reached your hypocrisy nirvana. Congratulations.

          • Guru

            How am I being hypocritical by labeling someone who is obviously communist (or socialist, or is it liberal now) a communist, whether Hungarian or not? If you think only Hungarian communists visit this site then you live in a state of denial.

          • Aloof

            Then give us just 3 names of those people who YOU say are not Hungarian communists that post here. Have at it…

          • Guru

            You, Paul, that Wolfi guy, Magyarviking, idk there’s probably plenty more but I only got here yesterday.

            Always making demands huh? See, at least I adhere to legitimate requests (though this wouldn’t actually count as one) as does Fidesz. Legitimate ones.

          • Aloof

            LMFAO! Yeah now try a legitimate answer asshole. I’m the FURTHEST thing from a communist pal and so are the other the other folks you mentioned.
            Fidesz is LOADED with card carrying communists you incredible fucking hypocrite starting with Martonyi. Release the fucking files or STFU.

          • Guru

            hahahahha please while you support filth like that don’t talk child.

          • Aloof

            Knew you would punk out.

          • Guru

            From what? Sticking to my opinion of you and the likes on this website being post-communists to say the least? Not a chance in hell…

          • Aloof

            What is it with Fidesz, retardation and hypocrisy?

            Born, bred and educated in Communist Hungary part of a party LOADED with Communists that won’t release Communist files. Fidesz, a party that is quickly looking more and more like Communist every day.
            Release the files you Communist asshole or STFU.

          • Guru

            I’m sorry I wasn’t aware that the other government were so eager to release them and Fidesz wasn’t. Oh wait, that wasn’t the case at all! Don’t put that shit on Fidesz as if it looked for a second like any other regime was going to release them assclown

          • Aloof

            LMFAO! Fidesz was just as adamant as MSzP was about the commie files you lying commie. You’re a communist, Firebird is a communist and Leto is a communist, Martonyi is a communist. Would you like me to continue with the names of a couple of thousand other Fidesz commies? Release the files you commie POS or STFU.
            Fidesz is just latest edition of the Commies you in denial flat out lying commie. The ugliest and most corrupt commie mafia of them all since ’89.
            And oh yes I most CERTAINLY can lay this at the feet of Fidesz you fucking hypocrite.

          • Guru

            hahaha pleasseeeee I’m a communist? Because I hate Bajnai and Gyurcsany? Hmm seems legit!

      • MagyarViking

        You are, deliberately or out of pure ignorance, mixing two reports
        a) CoE report/decision to put Hungary on Monitoring
        b) The Venice Commission’s report on the 4th Amendment

        Both are different and will take different routes and have different meanings. The Venice Commission’s report, if it stands in its leaked draft version, will make a big push for those who inside the CoE would like to see a Monitoring procedure invoked against Hungary

        On top of that you still have the European Commision (EC) and the Europan Parliament (EP)
        Both of them will return to the Fidesz question when the Venice Report has been official released, and as it stands today, it does not look too nice for Fidesz

        And the EP has the righ, as the biggest direct-elected Parliament in the World, to discuss Fidesz, Whorban and Hungary when it so decides, regardless what Fidesz, Whorban and Hungary thinks about it, so for your own bloodpressure, do not put your hopes up too high, that anything is over…

        • Guru

          I’m sure you were on the toilet for longer than usual when hearing about the likely lifting of the EDP against Hungary…

          “…and Hungary thinks about it…”
          So the EP wants to decide the fate of the country without the input of the country in question? Sounds sooooo democratic!

          • Aloof

            What’s with the EDP fetish dude? If Hungary doesn’t adhere to the recommendations associated with it or dribbles over 3.0 GDP over the next 2 years they’re right back in it again.
            Frankly that’s the least of their worries economically…

          • Guru

            A fetish? So just because a point was scored by the Hungarian government against the leftists in Brussels, to mention it would equal fetish?

          • MagyarViking

            “against the leftists in Brussels”

            You seem to be extremely badly informed about the small fact that the majority of EU-commissioners and also the biggest party in the European Parliament, are all members of the EPP – the same party as Fidesz is member of

            You call Fidesz now a “leftist”?

          • Guru

            No, you buffoon. Stop twisting other people’s words. Did I say ALL members in Brussels are leftists? No. What did I say? I said “the leftists in Brussels”. What in that makes it seem like I attribute the majority to be leftist? I was talking about the Jihadists like Reding. Stop trying to manipulate people’s words.

          • Paul

            “Jihadists like Reding”…..Aaaaand you just are flushing yourself down the toilet.

            Thanks.

          • MagyarViking

            “So the EP wants to decide the fate of the country without the input of the country in question?”

            Well, as the EP is a democratic institution, where all its members are allowed to speak, and not like in the Hungarian Parliament, where uncomfortable questions about the Fidesz Tobacco licenses are not allowed, the Hungarian MEPs are allowed to participate on an equal footing…

            That is what democracy is about, not Fidesz-style

          • Guru

            “on equal footing”
            So, in a question regarding the very future of Hungary, the Hungarian representatives get the same airtime as the others? Would an Irish rep have as much knowledge about the issue? Great!

          • MagyarViking

            And an Hungarian MEP may speak as much as any Irish MEP about the situation in Ireland

            It is frightening, right…?
            Actually have to accept the rules of the club…what a nightmare that must be…but with the Lisbon Treaty there is now an door marked EXIT on it, for those who are too scared

          • Guru

            Not too frightening. You’re right everyone gets equal rights. That’s why this war on Orban is being blown out of proportion by lowlives and the majority of reps don’t actually care. So keep praying that your Lords Reding, Schulz, Cohn-Bendit, Barrosso and the likes keep it going, as if enough of Europe don’t hate them yet!

          • MagyarViking

            “everyone gets equal rights. That’s why this war on Orban is being blown out of proportion by lowlives”

            Yes, democracy is a bitch is it not?
            One person – one vote
            not really the sound of it, as:
            * One Leader
            * One Party
            * One Nation

          • Guru

            Who says one party? Does it look like there’s one party in Hungary?

          • MagyarViking

            Yes, then if you are anti-Fidesz, you are also anti-Hungarian
            Hence in Hungary there can only be
            * One Leader
            * One Party
            * One Nation

            Like in the Good Ol’ Days

          • Guru

            Wow way to create assumptions just like that! See if we had less people like that in the EU, maybe it wouldn’t be in the huge shithole it’s in today….

  • Paul

    Hey…Guru..do me a favour and stop being a hypocrite yourself.
    Start posting some comments telling the audience over here…that
    Fidesz/Hungary should step out of the EU. We both agree it
    doesn’t belong in the Union.

    You see…I agree with mrs.Kroes saying:

    I am talking about Zsolt Bayer of Fidesz
    in Hungary – that is a sign they (Fidesz,Orban) are not a
    worthy ally.

    Again: Fidesz,Orban) are not a worthy ally…..not worthy….not an ally

    • newsreader

      .

      • Paul

        Quote newsreader: .
        I vote you up for this one…okay?

        • newsreader

          Well … at least you know how to do that .. congrats.

          • Paul

            Yep…I know….loook….DOWN.
            Easy nem?

    • Guru

      I don’t think it should step out of the EU, where did you get that from? Wishful thinking on your part maybe? Just because there are corrupt individuals in the Union doesn’t mean its fate is sealed forever. That’s how the EU runs its “democracy”? The first state that disagrees with its policies should leave? You, my friend, can join the club of hypocrites as well!

      • Paul

        “my friend, can join the club of hypocrites as well”
        Well I am not your friend…..and show me where I am a hypocrite?
        You just gave the proof…that you are.

        • Guru

          That’s very simple. You constantly bash the government for being undemocratic. Yet, just because it disagrees with some policies of the EU, you want it to leave?! Where’s the voice of the people being heard in that, hypocrite? Where’s the protection of minorities (which the EU happens to be SO big on) in that, hypocrite?

          • Paul

            You constantly bash the government for being undemocratic….BASH…I accuse them for being undemocratic…there is a huge pile of reports which proof that this is a FACT.

            “he protection of minorities”
            Which minorities, Roma, homeless, gays, Jews, critical journalists in general, political oponent….what are you talking about?

          • Guru

            Hungarians make up 10 million of the several hundred million people in the EU. That makes them a minority. What’s difficult to understand here?

            “there is a huge pile of reports which proof that this is a FACT.”
            Hmm and each have been proven wrong, since otherwise actual action would’ve been taken right? Also there is a huge pile of reports that stand with the government as well. But I’m sure you wouldn’t deem them credible.

          • Paul

            “Hmm and each have been proven wrong, since otherwise actual action would’ve been taken right”

            Each have been proven right!,

            Slow down…action takes time….but they are getting there…to be precise…this month.

            Proven wrong by Fidesz only….these are experts…every democrat within the EU will see these reports
            as facts….not the silly Fidesz propaganda though.

            “Also there is a huge pile of reports that stand with the
            government as well. But I’m sure you wouldn’t deem them credible”.

            ..well I do not think they are credible..which is a never mind….the EU will not find them credible even close…but just some deflecting efforts. THAT is what will count.

            Actually ONLY Fidesz thinks they are credible….but then again….maybe even not them…they know what they are messing up.

          • Guru

            So thank you for proving my point about the EC, run by people like you, exercising “democracy”. First, the EC did nothing under Gyurcsany and Bajnai even though everyone knew they were lieing and stealing. Now that a right-centre party is elected, a Jihad is being waged (for three years now, to no success of Reding and Barrosso) against the country (yes the country, get out of here with that “we’re not against Hungary, we’re against Orban crap) . So reports are made, and EACH had numerous faults within. How can a professional report that determines the fate of a state contain pathetic mistakes like not including the progress being made by the country in question regarding the topics of the report (such as in the recently “leaked” Venice Commission report which included legislation that was already amended by the government, upon talking to the EC)?? THEN, if the country in question comes up with a response, people like you don’t even bother listening to it because it would potentially bring up viable points, which is your worst fear. So you find anything that’s against your views as lacking of credibility. You are a perfect example of a “democrat” in the 21st century: practically a policy Nazi who doesn’t accept or even bother looking at anything that doesn’t agree with his personal (ignorant) views. Thank you for this!

          • Paul

            Sorry Guru…nothing personal….but Jihad???? against
            Hungary???

            Fidesz Hungary…is not having checks and balances etc. which they should. That is IT.

            You are supporting an authoritarian crony system…me not.

            Sorry…I sort of started
            to like you.

  • MagyarViking

    “While Reding has condemned Hungary for the constitutional amendments, “Luxembourg – the Commissioner’s native country – amended its constitution twelve times between 2003 and 2009, and six times in the six months between December 1988 and June 1989,” the statement said”

    This is embarrising…a Deputy PM in a EU member state publishing statements as this?
    Kinder-garten logic, at its best…

    Just read the leaked draft of the Venice Commision’s report on the 4th Amendment:
    “152. Taken together, these measures amount to an attack on constitutional justice and on the supremacy of the basic principles contained in the Fundamental Law of Hungary. The limitation of the role of the Constitutional Court negatively affects all three pillars of the Council of Europe:

    the separation of powers as an essential tenet of democracy,
    the protection of human rights
    and the rule of law.

    153. The Venice Commission stresses that the Hungarian Fundamental Law should not beseen as a political instrument. The crucial distinction between ordinary and constitutional politics and the subordination of the former to the latter should not be disregarded, lest democracy and the rule of law be undermined in Hungary.

    154. In conclusion, the Fourth Amendment perpetuates problems of the independence of the judiciary, seriously undermines the possibilities of constitutional review in Hungary and endangers the constitutional system of checks and balances. Together with the en bloc use of cardinal laws to perpetuate choices made by the present majority, the Fourth Amendment is the result of an instrumental view of the Constitution as a political means of the governmental majority and is a sign of the abolition of the essential difference between constitution-making and ordinary politics”
    http://www.politics.hu/20130603/read-and-comment-on-leaked-draft-report-of-the-venice-commission-on-hungarys-controversial-constitutional-amendment/

    Read this part again:
    “153. The Venice Commission stresses that the Hungarian Fundamental Law should not beseen as a political instrument”

    So, the Venice Commission is confirming what EU-Commissioner Redding is stating…

    • xyz

      Hey MagyarWanking, you still the idiot as you used to be? What a pathetic loser …

      • MagyarViking

        “you still the idiot as you used to be?”

        Of course – Is there a law that you must change?
        That would be Fidesz to introduce that law…

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