June 10th, 2013

Socialist MP accuses Jobbik lawmaker of provocation, Holocaust denial over questioning of memorial site

Pal Steiner, a lawmaker of the opposition Socialists, accused a radical nationalist MP of Holocaust denial and provocation in a parliamentary committee on Monday.

The constitutional affairs committee discussed an amendment proposal Steiner has co-authored that asks the education state secretary to draft a recommendation that all Hungarian students in public education should pay a visit to the memorial site and museum at the Nazi concentration camp of Auschwitz-Birkenau.

The motion also proposes ensuring the reimbursement of the full cost of the visit for the schools.

During the proposal’s debate in the committee, Tamas Gaudi-Nagy of Jobbik said his party rejected the proposal, saying that “there have been criticism over how accurately the memorial site may reflect reality.”

“The creation of the memorial site is in fact not without concerns,” said Gaudi-Nagy.

As a result of this, and also because of cost concerns, Jobbik rejects the proposal, he added.

Steiner said “even though Gaudi-Nagy has stated that he did not want to commit Holocaust denial, he has repeatedly been doing just that.”

The committee finally rejected the Socialist amendment proposal as the visit of the Auschwitz camp would make part of the national curriculum, as an option without state support, a ruling lawmaker said. Ruling Fidesz postponed the final vote on the draft proposal on visiting memorial places, including the Terror House Museum and the Nazi camp, on an educational basis.

Gaudi-Nagy made a similar statement about the Auschwitz-Birkenau memorial site during the general debate of a bill in late May. Antal Rogan, the group leader of ruling Fidesz then responded saying that nobody has the right to question the Holocaust, the suffering and death of millions of people.

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  • Firebird

    I find the idea of visiting Auschwitz to be a good one, assuming the students are old enough to actually understand what happened. My concern is for funding; if the EU can support the idea financially then great. But if not, then the state debt would rise terribly in just a year or two.

    • szebbjovot

      It would be better for more Hungarians to visit historic Hungarian cities in detaches regions. If you are so desperate to see a shower surrounded by concrete then look in the bathroom of a panelház .

      Anyway, it would easily fool people, for example in Auschwitz they tried to pass a postmortem “chamber” as a torture chamber.

      ” My concern is for funding”
      Israel should pay for it, or maybe your neo-con buddies in America.

      • Daniel

        It would be better for more Hungarians to visit historic Hungarian
        cities and areas in detaches regions, maybe treck to Madarasi Hargita.

        I agree, and if anything, it should be illegal for any Hungarian citizen to desecrate, or miniscule, the tragedy that was trianon.

      • MokusMan

        I’m not sure what you’re talking about with regards to the torture chamber. I’ve been there twice, and that certainly isn’t true.

        • Daniel

          That’s a very fair point, but it’s not very warranted since I don’t see the Hungarian government engaging itself in any rhetoric that would suggest some kind of military conflict. Besides, we are all nato countries. It’s impossible in the current climate. We’ll see what the future holds though. Remember, it took 1000 years for Hungary to get dismembered. And it may take another 1000 years to retrieve those territories, but it will happen.

        • Hungarian

          That is exactly why I emphasize for Hungary to become a nuclear power. That would add tools in the negotiation basket. In addition would ensure that the neighbors do not make a stupid move.

          • MokusMan

            That’s a ludicrous idea. The threat of nuclear weapons would be hollow, because any used by Hungary on its neighboring countries would cause extreme damage to Hungary itself and would invariably kill Hungarians living in those countries. It would bring down UN sanctions on Hungary so fast it would make your head spin. Borders would be completely sealed by all neighboring countries, the economy would absolutely collapse, and social unrest would be inevitable.

      • Firebird

        I agree that they should visit places that were terrible to Hungarian history. The House of Terror should be a must as well as Recsk. These are close and far more affordable. But if there’s outside funding for Auschwitz then I also support that.

    • MagyarViking

      “the state debt would rise terribly in just a year or two”
      Not everyone travels 1st Class…then not everyone is a Fidesz politician

      • Daniel

        Do the math bruf:

        A round trip to auschwitz, would be what, 50 eur at the very least?
        now times that by around 2 million.
        That’s a 100 million smackers. Is that even remotely realistic during this economic crisis?
        Are the socialists even trying to appeal to voters at this point, or are they just hell bent on political suicide?

        • MagyarViking

          Given that about 100.000 live births happens in Hungary every year, it can hardly be more new small persons in school for like say 8th grade (last obligatory)
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Hungary#Births_and_deaths

          50 Euro * 100.000 = 5 Million Euro per year, which is 5% or a twenth of your estimation

          If the proposal would only include students from 2ndary schooling (14-18 yo), then we go down even more, then many of the Roma would be excluded

          ‘firebird’ “just hell bent on political suicide”?

          • Daniel

            “it can hardly be more new small persons in school for like say 8th grade (last obligatory)”

            Can you rephrase that because, call me dumb but I have a real hard time understanding awkward grammar.

            As to my 2 mill figure, it was simply an estimate as to how many Hungarians are currently attending school, and was not accounting for your annual estimate which would obviously increase my projected cost for this whole thing.

            But notwithstanding, the whole idea is impractical, ridiculous, humiliating, and would only increase the tensions between huns and jews. If you want to increase anti-semetism and paranoia towards jews then by all means support this idea. If you want them to get along, you must move on from these traumas, especially since its going to be hard to make huns feel guilty for crimes they did not commit.

            What’s next, taking huns to the congo and guilt ridding them for the horrible deeds done by Belgians? Or better yet, send them to Native American reservations and blame them for that too?
            Blacks, jews, asians, natives, and even huns. What do these people have in common? They all suffered under the tyranny of germanic peoples. So maybe we should start with them and go down the list from there. Btw I think swedes fall into that category.

          • MagyarViking

            “As to my 2 mill figure, it was simply an estimate as to how many Hungarians are currently attending school, and was not accounting for your annual estimate which would obviously increase my projected cost for this whole thing.”

            Which is just a lie

            You claim 2 Million Hungarian Students would go, but what you are not true about is tat not every one would go in one year, but it would be worked into the school plan and it would only apply to a specific group of students, like the one in the 8th grade (14 yo)

            These 14 yo are less than 100 000 per year, so each year the cost would be ca 5 MEUR and to come up to your sum, it would take 20 years…
            So your argument is a typical political lie…

            I never claimed I supported this idea of travel, so I will not debate the merits or not about it, just exposing an obvious lie
            Facts are a bitch, are they not?

          • Daniel

            Yea, you won’t debate the merits of it because it is totally impractical, whatever the cost. Btw, don’t say i lied, because I did not. I was simply putting out an estimate based on how many students there are currently in Hungary. A lie implies that it was a deliberate misrepresentation which it was not.
            And no, facts are not a bitch, they are what they are – facts.

          • MagyarViking

            “I was simply putting out an estimate based on how many students there
            are currently in Hungary. A lie implies that it was a deliberate
            misrepresentation which it was not”

            Well, you must be a politician…to use a figure on a cost that takes 20 years to create, as it was a cost today…

      • Firebird

        Okay, stop.

  • Leto مؤدّب

    “there have been criticism over how accurately the memorial site may reflect reality.”

    http://socioecohistory.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/auschwitz_b4nafter_1989.jpg?w=517&h=179

    • Aloof

      Well there is NO dispute that over 400,000 Hungarian Jews died there a reality that you dispute?

      • Leto مؤدّب

        Anti-semitic, its a trick we always use it

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0kWAqZxJVE

        • Aloof

          WTF does this have to do with the reality that Hungary sent over 400K Hungarian jews to their deaths at Auschwitz?

          Divert, deny yada yada yada… Own up to your deeds bud and a lot of this jewish crap would go away.

          • Leto مؤدّب

            Hungary didn’t send over 400K Hungarian jews to their deaths at Auschwitz, you absolutely disgusting Yankee cockroach. It was the occupying German Nazi who did. The exact number of these victims should be debated though. (That’s what my first post hinted at.)

          • Aloof

            LMFAO! That was a good one you perpetually in denial revisionist lying commie POS. What a fucked up country that Hungary is indeed.

            No wonder the rest of Europe can’t stand you.

          • Daniel

            let me share an anecdote with you.
            There was a man, who was abused by his father his whole life, but loved by his mother. his mother was always good to him, was very loving and nurturing, but his father was a royal cunt. the man had a seething hatred for his father, and everyday broiled in ways to get revenge on him. then one day, as he got older, his mother passed away, for reasons unknown to him he did not shed a single tear at the funeral. and it puzzled him. more years passed, and his father met the same fate. yet on his funeral, the man collapsed to his knees for and broke down in uncontrollable tears. The man cried for his father because once his father died, he realized he became an empty shell because he built his entire life and identity on hating him, and once his father was gone, so was he.
            This is the story of the jew. poor old jew was always mistreated. and it did not start with huns, far from, it started a long time ago, and that identity has been perpetuating itself for centuries. in the collective subcosciouss of the jew, all he really knows is rejection and attrocities, and it builds his idenitity around it. thats all he is. and just like how an individual abused will manifest abusers the same way the jew does the same. he hates on huns so he can say hes hated by them, he kills palestinian children so that the whole world may hate him so he may say, “see son, i told you they hate us, its them that are the evil ones!”
            And the cycle continues.

            So no, we are not guilty of no holocaust, and we never will be. We are guilty of good wine, fine women, and great music. Thats our legacy, and you are making yours.

          • Aloof

            “There was a man, who was abused by his father his whole life, …”
            I stopped right there because you are describing one Viktor Orban. I agree.

          • Daniel

            Your reaction was to bve

          • Daniel

            be expected*

      • szebbjovot

        400,000??

        Sometimes its 600,000, sometimes its 450,000.

        The number of Jews deported by Horthy himself (who off course loaded them into the carriages with his own hands) varies too.

  • Brendan Hall

    No right to ask questions. Says who?

  • Freedom

    Pal Steiner, just doing what Jew lap dogs will do, just trying to get more businesses to the museum con men over there in Poland.

    Honestly, this is a good thing for Jobbik, the more Hungarians become enslaved by Jewish supremacism thanks to Socialist-Fidesz co rule, and the more they realize how bad it stinks, the more Jobbik looks like the only sane and legitimate party.

    This crazy person wants to send every Hungarian child to a Jewish horror house, to traumatize them, humiliate them, to hurt their identity and civil rights, to instill guilt and eventually promote genocidal “self-hate” in the young. This sending people to go see “death camps” is genocidal, part of the larger genocide that Jewish fascist want to instill in every population.

    • James Walsh

      Better to be a Jew than a dirty Nazi like you!

  • Counterpoint

    I visited Auschwitz many years ago. It wasn’t my primary destination, there’s not much to see there, and sure ain’t worth a trip unless you also check out the salt mine of Wielicka and spend some time in Krakow as I did.
    Jews ought to make an effort to at least pretend that they are not the center of the world, and do something useful instead of constantly whining about their permanent victimhood and “anti-semitism”. If people want to debate the myths surrounding the so called “holocaust”, let them, it should not be a crime. Freedom is more important than locking up political prisoners to please a hostile minority. The holocaust industry has run its course, time to let it go already. It made jews and Israel rich, and above the law, what else do these people want?

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