October 2nd, 2013

Deputy PM: Hungarians must accept responsibility for the Holocaust

“We know that we are responsible for the Holocaust, we cannot pass on the responsibility,” deputy Prime Minister Tibor Navracsics declared at Tuesday’s international conference on anti-Semitism.

Filling in for Prime Minister Viktor Orbán, who was injured in a football accident, Navra¬csics declared war on anti-Semitism.

The two-day conference in the Upper chamber of Parliament is called Jewish Life and Anti-Semitism in Central Europe.

Navracsics declared that Hungarians were the perpetrators and the victims of the Holocaust, “Hungarians did the killing, and the dying.”

Speaking about the duty owed by politicians toward the survivors of the Holocaust and to future generations, he said it is important to tighten laws against hate speech.

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  • MagyarViking

    “We know that we are responsible for the Holocaust, we cannot pass on the responsibility”
    “Hungarians did the killing, and the dying”

    Hear!, Hear!
    I could not state it better myself!

    Fidesz deputy Prime Minister Tibor Navracsics stood in for “Prime Minister Viktor Orbán, who was injured in a football accident”, but I really wonder if would have heard just those words from Whorban himself…and “a football accident” sounds like a lame excuse – what did he do – broke his neck?

    Was Whorban playing with his best buddy, Fidesz co-founder and Authorized Racist, Zsolt Bayer?
    Did they Kiss and Make-up afterwards like on this picture?

    • Hungarian

      Who gives a shit jewshit-Stan fuck up?
      Be happy, now I am voting for Jobbik!

      • Pippi

        You can’t vote if you are an imbecile. And you clearly are.
        But, Jobbik has certainly great use for people like you :)

    • justasking

      ‘”a football accident”
      Could have pulled a groin muscle…

      • MagyarViking

        Yes, given that Whorban normally speaks out of his ass, that would definitly be an inhibiting defect…

        • hungarian state the source

          i get it now.you are a staunch left winger and objectivity and truth are not your strongpoints.how can you be taken seriousley mister?this is obviousley what blinds you from accepting that my source is truthful and yours is false.are you anti semitic by any chance mister?

          • MagyarViking

            “blinds you from accepting that my source is truthful and yours is false”

            You have still not proven that the JTA-text contradicts the HATC-quote…try to do that first, before you get into too complicated things
            Can I recommend a special class in reading comprehension?

          • state the source

            excuse me mister.what dont you unerstand?the jta article was posted one day BEFORE the polit.hun article above.the transcript is there for all to see.
            the politis.hun articel is plagarised and incorrect also.if you refuse to see and accept this then i have nothing more to say on the matter.everyone who reads this article and these comments can and will decide for themselves who is right.

            by the way.why did you reply to 3 of my posts witht the same cut and paste reply?

          • MagyarViking

            “the jta article was posted one day BEFORE the polit.hun article”

            Yes, that is normal thing here that we get the news one or more days delayed, does not prove a thing

            The JTA article has no actual description that they were on place, exactly like the HATC-article, so it may be a re-write of some other article somewhere. Just because they are Jews, does not mean they are everywhere in person…

            http://www.jta.org/2013/10/01/news-opinion/world/hungary-recognize-involvement-in-holocaust-during-budapest-conference

            Your JTA-article exists also in this media:
            http://www.jewishjournal.com/world/article/hungary_recognizes_involvement_in_holocaust_vows_to_fight_anti_semitism

            also published on Oct6ober 1st, so which one was first and which one was REALLY there?

            And what about this article:
            “”70 years ago it was Hungarians who killed Hungarians,” he added in his speech.”
            http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/15660640-hungary-must-acknowledge-its-role-during-holocaust-deputy-pm

            Also published on October 1st…maybe they were the only ones there…

          • state the source

            this is the profile of the contributor to your linked article at http://www.alvoices.

            http://www.allvoices.com/users/atifji75

            as for your article published by the jewish journal any fool can see that there article was taken from the original jta article that i posted.

            at leastthe too sites you linked to provide the source of there material which is more than can be said for politic hu and yourself mister.

            you still dontget it do you mister?

          • MagyarViking

            “at leastthe too sites you linked to provide the source of there material which is more than can be said for politic hu and yourself mister”

            Where?

            Show me the exact place where any of the articles here claim that they have been there at the actual conference in person, and not just writing off each other’s articles, just copy-paste that piece of information from this JTA-article:
            http://www.jta.org/2013/10/01/news-opinion/world/hungary-recognize-involvement-in-holocaust-during-budapest-conference

          • state the source

            are you being deliberetly obtuse or does it come naturaly?

            if i said the sky was blue,you would say it was green.i think readers reading this thred will see who is right and who is wrong. i have nothing more to say to you.

          • MagyarViking

            You are making a claim (that JTA is the only news provider to be trusted) – but refuse to prove it (like ‘Why?’), just repeating the same mantra – who is then “obtuse”?

            And, more important – Why do you have a problem with what Fidesz deputy Prime Minister Tibor Navracsics said:
            “We know that we are responsible for the Holocaust, we cannot pass on the responsibility”
            “Hungarians did the killing, and the dying”

            - or if it was:
            “We know that we were responsible for the Holocaust in Hungary. We know that Hungarian state interests were responsible”

            -or if it was:
            “”70 years ago it was Hungarians who killed Hungarians”

            ===

            Actually from the 2nd quote (your JTA) one can actually interpret an acknowledgement of guilt that maybe can be used in the case against MAV in the US…

        • justasking

          Never took anatomy did ya?

    • hungarian state the source

      “Hear!, Hear!
      I could not state it better myself!”

      without a source , what you here here and could not state better yourself means nothing.you cheer what is not true,what was not said.you are a fool.
      i have posted a jewish link so you can read with your blikerd eyes what was really said.

      • MagyarViking

        “without a source”
        What you mean?
        The source is
        http://www.hatc.hu/index.php
        it is clearly given above

        Your link (from another post) states:
        “BUDAPEST (JTA) – Hungarian Deputy Prime Minister Tibor Navracsics said the country’s leaders recognize Hungarian involvement in the Holocaust and vowed the state will combat anti-Semitism and racism”
        http://www.jta.org/2013/10/01/news-opinion/world/hungary-recognize-involvement-in-holocaust-during-budapest-conference

        it does not have the same wording, but it is not a direct quote either, just a summary
        Why should I trust JTA better than HATC?
        In what sense does JTA ‘outsource’ HATC?

        • hungarian state the source

          “it does not have the same wording, but it is not a direct quote either, just a summary”

          so you admit it then?problem is mister that it IS presented as a direct quote and the other ‘quote’ is pure fabrecation.
          my source was written 1 day before the fabrecated story presnted by politics hun.

          • MagyarViking

            Now we take it very slowly….

            Your/JTA text:
            “Hungarian Deputy Prime Minister Tibor Navracsics said the country’s leaders recognize Hungarian involvement in the Holocaust and vowed the state will combat anti-Semitism and racism” is *not* a direct quote

            The HATC-text is more a direct quote:
            “We know that we are responsible for the Holocaust, we cannot pass on the responsibility”
            “Hungarians did the killing, and the dying””

            2 quotes that is *not* contradicted by your/JTA text, which is just a sketchy summary

            So, you have *not* proven anything (as usual)

          • state the source
          • MagyarViking

            Yes I read it again and it now contains the same direct quote as HATC:

            ““We know that we were responsible for the Holocaust in Hungary. We know that Hungarian state interests were responsible,” he said Tuesday at the opening session of “Jewish Life and Anti-Semitism,” a two-day international conference in Budapest sponsored by the Tom Lantos Institute”

            Compare that with the quote above from HATC:
            “We know that we are responsible for the Holocaust, we cannot pass on the responsibility,” deputy Prime Minister Tibor Navracsics declared at Tuesday’s international conference on anti-Semitism”

            and they are reasonable similar. What can be different is that one refers to the written speach, the other one to what was actually stated, but the important thing is the statement:
            “We know that we are responsible for the Holocaust”
            that is the main message of deputy Prime Minister Tibor Navracsics. I think every one understands that he meant “in Hungary and performed by Hungarians”. There is no reason he would assume responsibility for Nazi-Germany

            So what is really your problem with the HATC-article and why should I believe JTA better?
            Especially as I think the JTA-article has changed its content since you started this debate…

  • Hungarian

    You just lost a vote Fidesz!
    Fuck Jews, that 1% noise making god father money hungry, power hungry north African mob!

    This is Hungary, a country for Hungarians and not Indians or north Africans!
    Take a note of it slimy mob!

  • justanobservation

    The unfortunate thing is they tell the international audience this, but do they truly feel this way and do they tell Hungarians as well that they should all understand the responsibility their nation has to change antisemitism and racism in their views when it comes to everyday life? One thing I have learned is that Fidesz has one version they tell the international community and another when they report on these same issues to the Hungarian public. Their enforcement record on hate crimes and hate speech are a joke and when it comes to nationalism they do not draw the line between being proud of your country and showing that you do not have to hate all others in order to have that pride. Fidesz puts on a nice face when they are talking to the western world, but then at home fidesz officials are continuously teaching their people to honor people like Horthy, introducing antisemitic literature in schools, encouraging us to hate our neighbors.

    • hungarian state the source

      the unfortunate thing is that you beleve everything you read.check the source before you come up with windbag statements an acusations

      • MagyarViking

        Prove that HATC statement is wrong, which you have not done so far…

        • hungarian state the source

          the exagerrated comments and fabrications were taken from the jta ORIGINAL relaease which was released October 1, 2013 10:07am.one day BEFORE this site presented the exaggerrated and false comments which the deputy minister was supposed to have said.

          • MagyarViking

            Your/JTA text:
            “Hungarian Deputy Prime Minister Tibor Navracsics said the country’s leaders recognize Hungarian involvement in the Holocaust and vowed the state will combat anti-Semitism and racism” is *not* a direct quote

            The HATC-text is more a direct quote:
            “We know that we are responsible for the Holocaust, we cannot pass on the responsibility”
            “Hungarians did the killing, and the dying””

            2 quotes that is *not* contradicted by your/JTA text, which is just a sketchy summary

            So, you have *not* proven anything (as usual)

      • justanobservation

        This has nothing to do with reading anything, it is a truth that occurs everyday in Hungary! Deniers such as yourself are part of the problem!

        • state the source

          who are you to call me a denier,denier of what exactly?it has everything too do with reading and comenting honestly on what was said.the problem lies with people like you and that fool viking charecter drawing your own conclusions and presnting them as facts when the article posted by politics hun was plagerised and provided no source.that is the problem.it is you and that viking fool that are the deniers.people like you two wouldnt recognise the truth if it ran over you.

          • state the source

            apologies for the unintended link.
            problem..it
            this was unintentinal.please remove.

          • Justanobservation

            My post has nothing to do with regards to your argument with Viking over the article, nor was it directed at you! My post was based on what I see in everyday observation of what my government is doing to our society, right here on the ground , in Hungary! If you want to contribute to the problem of antisemitism do it in your own back yard not mine!

          • state the source

            excuse me mister.first you call me a denier a denier of what you do not say.then you acuse me of contributing to antisemitsm.how dare you.i know your kind of nationlism.right or left you hungarians are all the same.dont pretend to be somthing you are not mister.we jews can do well without your kind of two faceness.

            i have nothing further to say to you mister other than to tell you stop using the jews as your tool to bash your own goverment.

          • Justanobservation

            Don’t flatter yourself! The opinion I have of our government is not based solely on my governments hypocracy towards the holocaust. If you are truly Jewish (which I don’t believe for one second) you would be witnessing it first hand that fidesz says one thing to the media and DOES something entirely different when it comes time to follow through with its promises on changing antisimitic attitudes in Hungary. You are accusing the wrong people of being two faced!

          • MagyarViking

            “If you are truly Jewish (which I don’t believe for one second)”

            Agree, I think the poster ‘state the source’ is someone like this guy:
            http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t997133/

    • MagyarViking

      True, but it is then up to us and others to spread these words of Fidesz
      It may be significant that it is HATC, an indipendant distributor of news that states this and not the Fidesz-controlled Hungarian State News distributor, MTI
      We will see if Erik digs up anything from them also, even if it just will be in their English version

      • hungarian state the source

        i have given you the original article by a jewish news agency.do you deny there credibility?are you saying the jewish source is lying and your unsourced source presented by the same people is true?politics’hu,hatc and ahmg are one and the same.

        what is your problem mg?

        • MagyarViking

          The JTA text:
          “Hungarian Deputy Prime Minister Tibor Navracsics said the country’s leaders recognize Hungarian involvement in the Holocaust and vowed the state will combat anti-Semitism and racism” is *not* a direct quote

          The HATC-text is more a direct quote:
          “We know that we are responsible for the Holocaust, we cannot pass on the responsibility”
          “Hungarians did the killing, and the dying””

          2 quotes that is *not* contradicted by your/JTA text, which is just a sketchy summary

          So, you have *not* proven anything (as usual)

          • state the source

            “Hungarians did the killing, and the dying”

            nowhere is this said and presented in the original article by the jta.you are a liar and so is the plagerised text posted by politic.hu.you should be ashamed of yourself an so should this site.

          • MagyarViking

            WTF…?

            Where does JTA write that the Hungarian Deputy Prime Minister Tibor Navracsics ONLY said:
            “We know that we were responsible for the Holocaust in Hungary. We know that Hungarian state interests were responsible”…?

            Do you really think that the Hungarian Deputy Prime Minister Tibor Navracsics only spoke for 5 seconds and JTA has written down the whole speech and nothing more than that was said?

            So how did “Foreign Ministry State Secretary Zsolt Nemeth, noted the significance of a conference taking place in the very hall where Hungarian legislators passed anti-Semitic laws decades ago”?

            There is no quote so obviously he mimed that message, because otherwise JTA could not write it…

            You are truly not normal

            Source used:
            http://www.jta.org/2013/10/01/news-opinion/world/hungary-recognize-involvement-in-holocaust-during-budapest-conference

        • Lasher

          We all know that Jews never lie. LOL

      • Justanobservation

        I agree that we definately need to keep talking about this! The problem is I cannot trust state controlled media sources because they have their hands tied with regards to the truth, everything is becoming tighter and tighter, there is strong concern now with the laws on criticism of government! The picture that is painted in hungarian news looks rosier and rosier, yet if you just look around life looks so grim!

  • Democrat

    Somehow Orban just cannot bring himself to say it himself. What a lame excuse for absence at such an important event. Just imagine the impact if he had turned up in a wheel chair to make such a statement. But no, that would have riled Jobbikk whose support he will need in the next parliament.

    • hungarian state the source

      maybe you to should check the source of the politics.hun article.what is posted in the article was taken from the jta and are not true.so fool it doesn’t matter that orban canot ‘bring himself to say it himself’ when what is stated above is incorrect and not true.

      • MagyarViking

        Prove that HATC statement is wrong, which you have not done so far..

        • hungarian state the source

          it is you that has to prove it is true.the hatc story links to politics hun without a source.both are owned by the all hungary media group which is run by eric damato and Szabolcs Závodszky.

          the quotes i gave you come from a jta reporter at the meeting.the jta story does not exagerate or falsify what was said at the meeting by the deputy mininster of hungary about the holocost.

          the unsourced story that you show is fabricated and untrue.prove it is true.show me the source

          • MagyarViking

            That JTA-reporter states:
            “Hungarian Deputy Prime Minister Tibor Navracsics said the country’s leaders recognize Hungarian involvement in the Holocaust and vowed the state will combat anti-Semitism and racism” is *not* a direct quote

            The HATC-text is more a direct quote:
            “We know that we are responsible for the Holocaust, we cannot pass on the responsibility”
            “Hungarians did the killing, and the dying””

            2 quotes that is *not* contradicted by your/JTA text, which is just a sketchy summary

            So, you have *not* proven anything (as usual), as long as you do not get tyhat same JTA-reporter claiming that the HATC-quote was wrong, so where did he do that?

          • state the source

            everyone can read the original text for themselfs.there is nothing more to be said on the matter.your hatred is on full view through your refusal to aknoledge the ORIGINAL article in preference for your non sourced plagerised article by politic hun.you have serius problems and issues mister.

          • MagyarViking

            “everyone can read the original text for themselfs”

            and this text is at the moment on this link:
            http://www.jta.org/2013/10/01/news-opinion/world/hungary-recognize-involvement-in-holocaust-during-budapest-conference

            “BUDAPEST (JTA) – Hungarian Deputy Prime Minister Tibor Navracsics said the country’s leaders recognize Hungarian involvement in the Holocaust and vowed the state will combat anti-Semitism and racism.

            “We know that we were responsible for the Holocaust in Hungary. We know that Hungarian state interests were responsible,” he said Tuesday at the opening session of “Jewish Life and Anti-Semitism,” a two-day international conference in Budapest sponsored by the Tom Lantos Institute”

            So where is your point that
            “you cheer what is not true,what was not said.you are a fool”

            * Did not Hungarian Deputy Prime Minister Tibor Navracsics state that “We know that we were responsible for the Holocaust” [understood in Hungary, by Hungarians]?

  • hungarian

    since 1946 jews have receive hundreds of biillions of dollars in
    damages related to the holocaust industry.holocost survivors have certainley not benefited from the multi billion dollar shakeown.where is this money?year after
    year jews make the same lies,trick the non jewish people into feel
    guilty for something that never happened.time to stop this nonsense.why
    not invest the money into helping the roma people?they too sufferd didnt
    they.whats up?there cause not worthy of a few million euros or is ait
    always aout the jrews.

    time to say enough is enough.prove 6million jews were gassed.prove it.

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/172355#.UkpVuyRV3cc

  • hungarian state the source

    “We know that we are responsible for the Holocaust, we cannot pass on the responsibility,”

    the above is not right.that is not what was said.

    “Hungarians did the killing, and the dying.”

    this to is false.where is the original source of what this site has posted above?

    Here is more in depth take on what was said at the opening session of “Jewish Life and Anti-Semitism,” a two-day
    international conference in Budapest sponsored by the Tom Lantos
    Institute.

    http://www.jta.org/2013/10/01/news-opinion/world/hungary-recognize-involvement-in-holocaust-during-budapes

    where is politcs.hun source for the above ?accrediting words without source is rubbish and can be taken for wot it is worth. nothing!

    • MagyarViking

      Your link states:
      “BUDAPEST (JTA) – Hungarian Deputy Prime Minister Tibor Navracsics said the country’s leaders recognize Hungarian involvement in the Holocaust and vowed the state will combat anti-Semitism and racism”
      http://www.jta.org/2013/10/01/

      it does not have the same wording, but it is not a direct quote either, just a summary, so it is definitely *not* “more in depth take on what was said”

      Why should I trust JTA better than HATC?
      In what sense does JTA ‘outsource’ HATC?

      • state the source

        the link that you presented in the post above is NOT the link i presented in my post.why are you trying to divert attention from the true and original article from the jewish telegraphic agency?
        are you so stupid as to think readers canot see what you are doing?

  • MagyarViking

    For those who still doubt what actually was stated, here is the Official Fidesz version:

    “And we know that the institutions of the Hungarian state were responsible for the Holocaust.

    It would be easy for me, as a late successor of [wartime] Hungary’s Minister of Justice, to avoid all responsibility in the way we were taught to avoid responsibility in the seventies and eighties; that wasn’t us, those were other Hungarians, we don’t need to bother with them. But it was us! We know. Even if I and thank God my family are not personally affected, they were Hungarians; the perpetrators were Hungarians, it was Hungarians who fired the shots and it was Hungarians who died, and this is a huge responsibility that we here in Hungary and in Central Europe must face.”

    http://www.kormany.hu/en/ministry-of-public-administration-and-justice/news/deputy-prime-minister-tibor-navracsics-the-state-of-hungary-was-responsible-for-the-holocaust

    This is ofcourse maybe not the exact the words, more the written version of the speech, but who cares about minor deviations, when the message is as clear as it is here…?

  • Fak_Zakaix

    What about the atrocities against Romanians? When will you apologise for that? I think that this “anti-Semitism” thing is a diversion in order to distract from the need to apologise to Romanians for the atrocities committed by Hungarians during WWII.

    • rosti

      Why don’t you go back to the Telegraph,Spectator or wherever you’ve come from troll?

  • Freedom

    Jews must take responsibility for the Communist holocaust of tens of millions of Christians in the 20th century and tens of thousands of Palestinians today.

    • Lasher

      Damn right, but do you think they are about to?

  • Lasher

    I won’t stay in here long, because there is so much illiteracy in these posts I am afraid it may rub off on me.

  • TEE207

    There was NO state planned, organized and financed mass murder principally via the means of homicidal gas chambers of six million Jews.
    There was no state order or budget. There were no HOMICIDAL gas chambers. There were no six million Jewish deaths. (Remember the Auschwitz plaques reducing the death toll without a reduction in the total.) Read Robert Faurisson, David Cole, Germar Rudolf, Udo Walendy et al.
    This does not deny that there were Jewish deaths, loss of property, civil and political rights. But lots of other peoples including Hungarians & Germans suffered from this either directly or indirectly from the war.
    Hungarians DO NOT let yourselves suffer from the FALSE GUILT TRIP that has plagued the Germans.

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