February 11th, 2016

Orbán suspects “EU-Turkey pact” after Merkel’s visit to Istanbul

European citizens face two threats, the prime minister said, one from Brussels and the other migrants coming from the south. Viktor Orbán said the “threat” from Brussels was the “mandatory quota system” for distributing migrants among EU member states which has again surfaced in light of German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s recent visit to Turkey. This is “the biggest threat” in the coming months, Orbán told journalists. The issue is not about a German-Turkish bilateral agreement but about an agreement between the EU and Turkey.

The EU-Turkey pact calls for 400,000-500,000 migrants “to be transported directly” from Turkey to the European Union, he said, noting that Hungary protests against the plan. This concept has not been made public yet because several EU member states have insisted that the distribution of migrants cannot be enforced but must be a voluntary move on the part of nation states, he said. Orbán said the other “threat” to prepare for is a major increase of migration pressure from the south. The Hungarian government has taken steps to beef up the fence along its border, he added.

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  • Havelaar

    “European citizens face two threats”… yep…Number One is the illiberal neo nazi scum like Orban, abusing the refugee crisis.

    The other ones are Jihadis. Supported by Erdogan and Putin, plus Orban. All of them want to destroy the EU.

    • FUCeausescu

      Actually, for the past month or so we learned that the biggest threat to EU citizens are the authorities of the EU. We learned that they are willing to pursue a policy that endangers the personal safety of EU citizens, they are willing to cover it up, and the mainstream media was also caught in offside, as it was revealed that they willingly helped cover up.

      • And the Dutch police intimidates people who tweet simply “I don’t want migrants in my town”… The very same thing would have happened in the Kádár-regime (Hungary before 1989) if you had said in public that “I don’t want Soviet troops in my town”.

        • wolfi

          I’m sure this guy tweeted more, just like some poster here who wants innocent people to be hung (or hanged …) – and hate speech and death threats are punishable in all civilised countries (Hungary seems no longer to belong to that group – or was it ever?)

      • olga

        When you get a chance , please look at the article and the comments and read an extremely long but imho very impressive summary of the refugee crisis by a poster using the name “ambient”.

        The rest of the comments are rather interesting – Eva B. barreded someone from her site saying something about “we don’t call each other morons”

        People can be anti-FIDESZ and still be objective without histrionics


        • FUCeausescu

          Thanks for the link. I think you meant amballint. I have nothing against anti Fidesz, just anti Hungary or anti-Hungarian.

          That article BTW is awful. It neglects the fact that in the past six months or so, EU discourse has completely turned around from the issue of taking in migrants to stopping the flow. Which means that the EU has in fact pretty much gone in Orban’s direction. For instance, France’s PM Manuel Valls went from declaring Central EU countries as not sharing ‘EU values”, therefore should be kicked out of the EU, to declaring recently that if the migrant flow is not stopped soon, the future of the EU is in doubt.


          That article is therefore misleading, because Merkel’s position is in tatters, while Orban’s initial position that the borders must be secured is now accepted as a given. It therefore creates an issue out of a none-issue, namely whether the border will be secured at the front line, or whether a second line needs to be built.

          • olga

            I agree with your first paragraph and yes, it was a spelling error.

            I tend to glance at articles these days and pay attention to people’s reaction – did you see this Globe article?

            the salient part is not is what’s happening in Canada which is irrelevant to Hungary – it is how our government is differentiating between Syrian refugees in Europe and the ones coming to Canada. Clearly designed to to allay any fears Canadians may have but IMHO , these tactics outline and reinforce Europeans’ reasons for being nervous. Not what I call a supportive article for the majority of decent migrants in Europe

            I did not read the hundreds of responses but most likely the first 10 or so I read maybe representative of the rest


            Do you get HBO and ever watch Bill Maher ? If you can, and love his humour as much as I do, I hope you have seen him comment on the refugee crisis as well as on the GOP candidates

        • wolfi

          Yes, nazi bitch, mike Balint aka ambalint (you could at least try to get his name right) has alot of insight – he also wrote about Slovakia and Hungary:
          “nasty Balkan habits of its Southern neighbor.”

  • Biggus_Dickus

    Well, agreement or no agreement, Erdogan seems both willing and able to send all the refugees in Turkey to Europe.

    • That’s a fact: “Turkey’s Erdogan threatened to flood Europe with



      And Merkel is complicit in this.

      • wolfi

        Are you afraid of another Turkish invasion?
        Didn’t you fight valiantly against them once?
        Wait, just a few months ago Turkey was Hungary’s biggest friend – strange, isn’t it?

      • If Merkel was “complicit in this”, then she hardly needed to visit Turkey now…No Whorban is more instrumental in this, working hard to block any EU-wide agreement on the refugee crisis…

      • op

        Tough luck Orbán. Erdogan is the leader of Turkey, a good model for illiberal democracy (according to Orbán himself), and he probably made a pact with Germany on refugees. Illiberal democrats don’t discuss or debate, they make decisions on their own. This time against the will of Orbán, but hey, that’s the nature of this form of government. The mandatory quota system might be updated.

        • No matter how much Brussels and Germany insist, no migrants will be settled in Hungary.

          • op

            The fight will be interesting. Maybe EU itself is at stake.

          • “Maybe EU itself is at stake.”

            I myself would omit “maybe” in that sentence.

        • FUCeausescu

          Yes, but then is Merkel’s Germany an example of an Illiberal democracy as well? After all, did she discuss or debate? How about the rest of the “coalition of the willing”? Will they debate and discuss and seek feedback from the electorate? Or will they just rely on the mainstream media to do what we saw them do at the beginning of this year, in cahoots with the authorities? Namely, cover and deceive! I think compared with that, Orban’s “illiberalism” is quite tame if we think about it.

          • op

            Merkel made a mistake, illiberal-style.

          • FUCeausescu

            Calling what has been happening “a mistake” is a huge mistake in my view. We should take a step back and think what happened in Cologne:

            1) Morning after, police report claims it was largely quiet and uneventful. Since then, we learned that it became policy to more or less ignore migrant crimes.

            This quote in regards to an incident I think says it all:

            ‘Some of the other passengers yelled that they should leave the train, which they then did. I didn’t call the police after all, since I have been told several times by friends that the police tell victims there’s nothing they can do about it.’

            Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3426947/Shocking-footage-claims-group-migrant-men-attacking-two-pensioners-stood-woman-harassing-Munich-subway.html#ixzz3ztq4IC4r
            Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
            2) The supposedly independent mainstream media ignored what happened for five days. Only when they realized that social media and alternative right-leaning sites are causing the story to spread, did they finally start covering it in Germany and everywhere else.

            3) Since then, thanks to the many brave women who came forward in Cologne, we learned that others have been covering, like in Sweden and Austria for instance, with both authorities and the media seemingly in lockstep.

            This is not a mistake as far as I am concerned. It is the real state of democracy. Not as free as most people think we are. The sad part is that most people still think that we are free and democratic. The mistake is on the part of society, which is allowing this brief glimpse into reality slip by. The veil of deceit, which was only briefly lifted, is coming down again, because we are allowing the same people who have the power to retain it, even after what we have seen.

          • You are lying as usual.
            The local papers and even one of the regional paper told about the day after.
            National and International media only picked up after the number or Police Reports went up, but that is rather normal.

          • FUCeausescu

            You are lying as usual!

            Breitbart reported on January, 4 on at least 35 sexual assaults.


            It took a full day for the mainstream media in Germany and everywhere else (not the local small guys) to catch up. Nor did the German government make many statements until the fifth either. In today’s terms of instant news, a full day is shameful.

            You can try to deny it, but here is a quote from Politico, which is hardly a right-wing outfit:

            “Hans-Peter Friedrich, a former interior minister under Angela Merkel, accused the public broadcasters of operating a “cartel of silence.”

            “There’s suspicion that they believe they don’t have to report on such assaults, especially involving migrants and foreigners, for fear of unsettling the public,” he said.

            Following Friedrich’s critique, a freelance reporter for German public broadcaster WDR told a Dutch radio program that she and her colleagues were obliged to toe the government’s line on the refugee crisis. “We’re a public broadcaster and are therefore expected to approach the problem in a more positive way,” Claudia Zimmermann, the reporter, said.”


          • I never ever claimed that Breitbart did NOT write about it, just that Breitbart was not first – which is your wrong claim!

            Local and some regional media wrote already the day after.
            National media later when it became big news and not just a local thing – news is like that.

            Why should any Government make statements on things that was a local issue, until it became a national issue?

          • FUCeausescu

            Fuck, you are so full of shit! I never denied that some local media covered it. But fact is that the authorities, together with the national and mainstream media worked together to try to keep largely silent on it. As I pointed out, even Politico has acknowledged this, yet you try to whitewash it.

            Breitbart was the first news outlet with a reach wider than local to break this story. That is a fact and it is also a fact that it took till next day for everyone else to fess up. There was a reason why ZDF had to apologize. In my view, they should have all been dismissed. But, German poodles will swallow anything, so an apology was enough.

          • Why are you so fixated when any English-language media started to write about NYE Köln?

            The REGIONAL paper that started to write about it less than 24 hours after it happened has a certified printed circulation of:
            “Verkaufte Auflage
            (IVW 4/2015, Mo–Sa) 129.399 Exemplare”
            On top of that comes the on-line edition, which is probably read by more people.

            I am totally convinced that is more than your Breitbart News…so you are just full of shit when writing:
            “Breitbart was the first news outlet with a reach wider than local”, then Der EXPRESS is a REGIONAL paper physically published in the region of ‘Köln, Düsseldorf und Bonn’, which all have their separate local part, and in ‘aber auch im weiteren Umland (Aachen, Mönchengladbach, Duisburg)’, and in the wider area of these cities. This is an area of 2.5 up to 3 million people living there, so that is ‘the local news’, that you so detest…

            And again, here is the proof that this story broke less than 24 hours, where it mattered the most:
            Check the time-stamp “01.01.16, 22:49 Uhr”

          • FUCeausescu

            Fixated on English-language media? Was it not ZDF which had to apologize for ignoring the story?

            And again, if you look at my comments in this conversation, I stated over and over again that yes some local media picked it up, but as the Politico article points out, the German national media willfully ignored it, till it could not any more. And I can’t stress this enough, Politico is hardly a right wing establishment.

            And let us not forget why the Koln chief of police had to take the fall. Even though he knew that night that recent migrants were involved, he tried to make up stories about pickpocket gangs and so on. So, if we take a step back, the combination of the authorities lying their asses off and the German national mainstream media simply ignoring the story, smells of coordinated government-media cover-up, trying to simply bury it. Of course, not from your perspective. From your point of view this is “liberal democracy” at work. And I am sure, that all the other Soros minions on this site will agree with you as well.

          • Still you are fixated with when English-language media ‘broke the story’ as that would be some proof of anything. You totally ignore the German media in this.

            Yes, ZDF did a judgement of error regarding this story in the early time, but ZDF is just one of MANY broadcasters, not THE Broadcaster. ZDF is short for Zweites Deutsches Fernsehen, 2nd German TV, then they were the 2nd German State TV in addition to ARD. Then you have a number of commercial channels, who all of course try to milk stories like this.

            on Russian Propaganda War, you find this item:
            This Week’s Trend:
            Wolfgang Herles, former head of ZDF:
            German authorities administer a brutal censorship over the media.

            This is aimed at the Hungarian market and you are playing your part of that.

          • FUCeausescu

            So now you will pretend that ZDF is the only one which ignored the story? Once more, on the fourth of January, when Breitbart reported on it, most German mainstream media was still ignoring it, aside from some local news outlets. Again, it was a combination of German mainstream media and the authorities working in lockstep.

            BTW, do you still hate those women for coming forward? I remember a month ago you were aggressively questioning their motives for coming forward.

          • The reason why the story ‘broke’ as you want to claim it did on Monday January 4th, was that the local Police in Köln had a press-conference. Here was the first option to ask the Police questions and get some unguarded answers.
            Remember, 1 January was on a Friday, so a national holiday in Germany, then followed a normal Saturday/Sunday, meaning many had planned with a 3 day off, for those who were not off already on Thursday also, they had a four day off period.

            In media most of the material was already produced for these four days and the bulk of journalists started to work on Monday the 4th. Between Thursday December 31st and Monday January 4th, most German media was staffed with a skeleton crew, that just did any emergency news, which was not expected to be any big, if no real catastrophe happened. And no real catastrophe happened. No people died, no trains collided, but on Monday January 4th it stood clear that something may have happened in Köln, due to the number of reports to the Police during the wee-end, hence a need by the local Police in Köln to have a press-briefing and for even national media to attend, the ones who had staff available to send there, some did not arrive until Tuesday January 5th.

            This has nothing to do with if Germany is a Democracy or not, this has to do with the fact that German journalists, like most of the ‘White Folks’ in Germany works less than 40 hours per normal week and many are off during the Christmas and New Year period.
            I can understand that is a problem for you, but Germans in general have one of the better general working conditions in the world and that is part of the picture why the national press on scale did not ‘break’ anything before Monday/Tuesday January 4/5 and has nothing to do what English language press wrote about it.

            You may wonder why your lovely Breitbart did not break the story before, already on January 1st,,,were they also part of this ‘cover-up’?

            That German media is heavily censored is one of the lies that Russia is spouting out at the moment, as can be seen here in its 13th bulletin:
            It is notable that you and ‘PutinPutaleto’ has been pushing this idea hard here – one may wonder why…

          • FUCeausescu

            Yes, all the excuses: It was the weekend, it was a holiday, it was not a catastrophe. In the end, on the fourth of January many German and other mainstream media outlets were caught in offside, together with the authorities, which lied and lied and lied again. The fact that some local media outlets interviewed victims before the fourth and published on it, should have had all major news sites send investigators, because it was clear that something happened there. Instead, they wanted to pretend that nothing happened there, for the reasons laid out in that Politico article, which BTW is not the only article out there explaining some of the same reasons why the media acted the way it did. You can try very hard here to come up with excuses, whitewash it, but reality is that the elites were caught out on this one badly. The only reason the consequences are not worse is because after generations of good life and stability, Germans and Westerners in general have become a bunch of laid back, complacent pussies, with almost a child-like gullibility. Have to say however that in the past year, a lot of that innocence was lost.

          • Well, you and your tin-hat brigade has not shown one single case where a on-duty journalist was not sent to Köln before January 4th to do their own investigations. The simple fact is it was a big week-end off for everyone, including the media, which relied on already produced material to fill up its pages and broadcasts, plus a minimum of actual news coverage that was rather limited to in-house production – ‘telegram’ and translations of foreign media.

            Sweden had a similar even in 1986 when its Prime Minister was killed in the middle of the night – except for the local Police got the Big Freeze, the media did not know how to handle it and State TV and Radio, which is extremely important in a situation like this, had to improvise. They did not even had regular newscasts in the night between midnight and six in the morning.
            This is the timeline:
            23:21:30 — The Palme couple is shot.
            00:45:00 — Deputy Prime Minister Ingvar Carlsson arrives at Rosenbad and is sworn into office.
            01:10:00 — First radio broadcast about the murder.
            04:00:00 — First TV broadcast about the events.
            05:15:00 — The government holds a press conference.

            I heard this first radio broadcast then I was driving my Mother home that evening. After having dropped her off I drove to the crime scene, but just a few Police Officers, a very small area, basically just the blood-pool was cornered off and a few people and flowers at the scene, could be seen.

            This was before the era of common usage of mobile phones, so I went home and listened to the radio and check the first TV-broadcasts, then I had also a military assignment and that was one of the Officers protecting the Government Office (Rosenbad, where now the new PM was). I actually thought I would be called in the night but as no one called me, I woke up my Commanding Officer at around 4 o’clock, but he was not so sad that PM Palme had got shot…and told me to go to sleep.

            As you understand there have been massive conspiracy theories on Military and Police killing PM Palme, during the years and he was truly a hated person by some in those professions. I heard a few of my military colleagues who were happy with the outcome.

            The connection to Köln is that, Swedish State media decided to up their coverage to be 24/7 to handle situations like this better. And sadly another Minister, Anna Lindh, was killed some years later, but that happened during ‘office hours’ and given the above debacle with reporting PM Palme’s death, everything worked more smooth.

            I think several German news media will use this Köln-incident as an example to improve coverage, even outside normal ‘office hours’, especially for the State media.

          • Nope, that mistake is liberal-style.

  • …and at the same time Whorban makes his best to block any agreement that would give the European Commission (EC) powers to send FrontEx forces to take control over a segment of an EU External Border, if the local/national authorities are not up to the job. One example today would possible be Greece.

    But Whorban works against this, probably to make the crisis deeper and have some refugees outside his fence so Whorban can prove it is needed to fence in Hungarians in a true Orwellian spirit.

  • The EU External Action releases periodically a summary over Russian Propaganda War towards EU and its member states. Here is the latest collection from February 9th.
    Hungary is mentioned four times.

  • Now it is being reported that Turkish artillery is attacking Kurdish-held areas around Aleppo, Syria, some of them had just been taken away from Daesh/al-Quada forces.

    Turkey going into Syria to fight some of the enemies of Daesh/al-Quada/Assad/Russia and de -facto helping them shows on the complexity of the Turkish/Syrian game.
    Whatever Merkel and the EU comes up with, risks be torpedoed by a full-out war between the Turkish State and the Kurds. Kurds that exists not only in Trukey, but also in Iraq and Syria.
    The Kurds are not always united, they fight between them sometimes, then having lived under different rules for many generations creates different agendas, but wherever they are, in these three countries, they are the target of that country’s dictator.

    A full out war where Turkey and the Kurds are involved in, may trigger an even bigger refugee crisis than what we have seen so far, so it is understandable that Merkel, with an homegrown big population of both Turks and Kurds, is extremely interested to as much as possible make this war not happen.

  • Stev60

    Merkel is a criminal, in league with another criminal, Erdogan. They are both criminal conspirators in the destruction and Islamization of Gemany and Europe, except that Merkel is probably insane to boot:




    • wolfi

      infowars – the tinhat site.
      You’re really an idiot!

      • Stev60

        Oh dear. The source article is the HP DE, the Infowars link is just for those who don’t know German. You are really the idiot!

  • Here is a picture why the relation between Germany/Sweden on one side and Turkey is so complicated. To fully support Turkey, would mean supporting Turkey’s war on Kurds, and that is something many in Europe fear will catapult the region of Iraq/Syria/Turkey into a big mess, bigger than today, then Kurds make up 20% of Turkey’s population and if an all-out war comes, then Europe will have much more problems and the 2015 refugee crisis will look like a breeze comparable.

    In such a worse scenario, whatever deals have been made with Turkey to reign in Syrian and Afghan refugees heading for Europe will vanish, as their investments. If this lead to a huge unemployment and lack of FDI, then the Turkish society will have a huge challenge to handle 20% of its population wanting to separate at least Eastern Turkey and join a new Kurdistan consisting of the old Kurdistan of Iraq/Syria/Turkey.

    Russia of course fuels on the crisis by bombing forces in Opposition to Assad, but leaving Daesh to attack the other groups, so Daesh will be able to build up their Kalifate alongside Assad in Syria, then Assad is not willing to take on Daesh. This scenario is the worst outcome for Europe, hence the prefered one for Russia…

    • Stev60

      Erdogan’s Turkey was willing to set the Middle East aflame to destroy Syria and reestablish a neo-Ottoman imperium, and periodically crushes the Kurds to deny them basic rights of self-determination, maybe it’s time for Turkey to taste its own medicine, and for the Kurds to have the same basic rights as every other large people enjoys. Turkey has clearly become a major problem for Europe in its current form anyway.

      • Changing Turkey will destabilize the whole region for decades. Turkey has no ambitions to make Turkey bigger, so I have not a clue where your claim of “reestablish a neo-Ottoman imperium” comes from.

        The majority of Syrians are fleeing from Assad, many flee to Turkey, so your logic is totally wrong. As Hungary has interests in Ukraine, Turkey has interests in Syria – Is Hungary plotting a retake of Trianon, setting Eastern Ukraine aflame?

        • Stev60

          Bollox. ‘Changing Turkey’ is the key to stabilizing the region, and Turkey definitely has plans to make Turkey bigger, but an imperium need not involve territorial expansion anyway, just dominance via power and proxies. The majority of Syrians are fleeing from IS and other Islamists in fact. You argue like a Turk, you are no ‘Viking’, that’s for sure. And Hungary is not actually destabilizing and intervening in Romania say, like Turkey is in Syria. Nor is it even capable of it anymore.

          • “The majority of Syrians are fleeing from IS”

            Not according to this survey, that claims
            “More than two thirds indicate that the Assad army and their allies were responsible for violent conflict, less than half that figure name the so-called “Islamic State“ (ISIS). The Assad regime is by far the actor which inspires most fear of arrest or being taken hostage (77%), followed by ISIS with 42%. Since only the Syrian Army uses barrel bombs, this cause can also be traced to the Assad regime. Other armed groups were held responsible by less than 20% of respondents for arrests and hostage-taking”
            I suppose you will show me some Kremlin-info telling the opposite…

          • Stev60

            I said IS AND other Islamist groups, which btw are not only doing direct damage but also provoking the regime into harsher retaliatory measures, and prolonging the fighting. As for your ‘source’, a site called ‘adoptrevolution’ does not inspire much confidence of objectivity.

          • You have still not proved your claim…and writing
            “provoking the regime into harsher retaliatory measures, and prolonging the fighting”
            just shows where your sympathies are – not with the people of Syria…

    • To this mix of Kurdish separatists fighting for a Kurdish country of their own in Turkey, Iraq and Syria, we have of course the ones in Iran, doing the same thing.
      An activist of Party of Free Life of Kurdistan (Partiya Jiyana Azad a Kurdistanê (PJAK)) was shot Saturday during a pro-Kurdish demonstration by some counter-demonstrators in Stockholm, Sweden.
      If the attackers were Swedish Nazionalists, Turkish fascists or Iranian Security (which are known to have killed several Iranian refugees in Sweden and Germany the last 30 years), is a good question, but shows the complexity and power in the Kurdish question – and why there always has been a steady stream of refugees from that area and this risk to rise to a flood now when Russia decided to get involved locally.

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