March 16th, 2017

The Washington Post: Ethnic Hungarians in Romania celebrate national day

Thousands of ethnic Hungarians in Romania dressed up, saddled up horses and then paraded in the northwest Transylvania region on Wednesday to celebrate Hungary’s national holiday.

Source: Ethnic Hungarians in Romania celebrate national day

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  • Something else happened 1848 – The Mexican Cession of 1848 is a historical name in the United States for the region of the modern day southwestern United States that Mexico ceded to the U.S. in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848.
    The Mexican Cession (529,000 sq. miles) was the third largest acquisition of territory in US history.

    Just think what would happen if ‘ethnic Mexicans’ in present-day U.S. states of California, Nevada, Utah, most of Arizona, about half of New Mexico, about a quarter of Colorado, and a small section of Wyoming, would go out and hold parades to celebrate their connection to their MotherLand and desire to come back?

    Maybe Drumpf would like to build his wall a bit more to the North and East?
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Mexican_Cession.png

    • pantanifan

      and what about the nationalist community in Northern Ireland? Should they just accept that they are UK citizens and show allegiance to Queen Liz the Second?

      • Good question – I did not put any evaluation in my initial post, it was a pure coincidence I saw this happened also in 1848 and given the current political climate in the US and EU regarding refugees/immigrants, it points to the huge complexity of Nationalism, especially when you mix Religion into it.

        And as we know in Europe – there are more ‘countries’ than areas…

        • pantanifan

          Mix in a bit of history as well and you can end up with a situation like in Tibet.
          I guess the other question is where do you draw the line between patriotism and nationalism? Dressing up as Hussars and celebrating feeling Hungarian, as long as it doesn’t denigrate any other traditions, seems okay to me…

      • Vidra

        Nothern Ireland’s large majority “no” vote shows that a growing proportion of its inhabitants see themselves as Europeans, and the old “Troubles” should be consigned to history. Which is what could happen in Hungary and Romania too, if their glorious leaders wanted it to happen.

        • pantanifan

          In a yes/no referendum it’s difficult to attribute reasons to why people voted the way they did without doing research. Your explanation is one possibility (hope you’re right), but there are also other unique factors to N. Ireland which may have played a role:
          1) The only part of the UK with a land border to the EU
          2) A very high share of the public sector in the economy
          3) By UK standards, a relatively large agricultural sector

          • Vidra

            Northern Ireland – agreed.
            Erdély – some kind of intervention is unlikely but necessary. You can’t have Eurocrats teling us that national boundaries will be increasingly irrelevant in the 21st century when Romania is constantly accused of denying the Magyar minority the rights that other ethnic groups enjoy in other Member States and Orbán is accused of constantly meddling in another country’s affairs.

    • FUCeausescu

      Not a similar example, because only a tiny minority of the hispanic community in that area has roots in that region pre-1848. The overwhelming majority arrived or their ancestors arrived after 1848 as migrants. I personally never met a Hungarian who moved to Romania after 1918.

      • “only a tiny minority of the hispanic community in that area has roots in that region pre-1848”

        And how many of the “White Folks” have it?
        Your comparison carries no water if you cannot compare it to immigration from the rest of the US.
        Maybe you will find that this part of the hispanic community outnumbers the ‘white immigrants’ – Is that not your argument for the Hungarian parts of Romania?

      • Bowen

        Actually, I know lots of Transylvanian Hungarians who came to Hungary after 1989, and are now going back again. Because Romania is doing a lot better than Hungary.

        • FUCeausescu

          Still talking about Romanian citizens moving back to Romania, so not the same as Hungarians migrating to Romania. The ethnic Hungarian minority in Romania is what is referred to as a historical minority, while Mr. Viking tried to draw parallels between that and the Hispanic, mainly migrant minority in the US.

          As for Romania doing better than Hungary, I would not go that far. Average wages are about 20% less in Romania. Unemployment is higher, and worker participation rate lower. About 40% of Romania’s population still does not benefit from indoor pluming. No doubt there will always be some Hungarians who were born in Romania, live in Hungary, but at some point will see a better opportunity in Romania and move.

        • Ádám Ferenczy

          Romania has a traditionally very backward infrastructure, and anti-western semi-asian orthodox culture. They are swarthy less European people (see population genetic researches) , both genetically and anthropologically.

  • Ádám Ferenczy

    In the reality, the late-nomad Vlach shepherd tribesmen (the ancestors of romanians) migrated from Bulgaria and South-Eastern Serbia to the present-day territory of Romania in the 13th century. The chauvinist daco-romanian continuity myth & state propaganda (which is the compulsory curriculum for children in romania since the communist Gheorghiu-Dej, and especially under Ceausescu’s directives , this national belief/religion became the central part of Romanian identity) Fortunately it is not generally accepted by western academic scholars. That’s why all major Western Encyclopedias (E.Encarta, E. Britannica, E.Americana, German Brockhaus, French Larousse etc…) mention the romanian state-supported daco-romanian myth, but they are also mention the reality: the Vlach nomad migration from the Balkans in the 13th century.
    Vlachs (medieval romanians) were the latest people who introduced the literacy in Europe, and they were one of the latest shepherd nomadic people in Europe. There were no orthodox bishopry in medieval Vallachia & Moldavia, even most of the monks and priests had to be „imported” from Serbia. Due to the lack of medieval literacy and own romanian history writing/chronicles – (until the Grigore Ureche’s chronicle in the early 17th century – who wrote about the balkan migration of his Vlach people) – The poor romanians had to built up a so-called “speculative history-writting” (or fabricated history), where speculations based on earlier speculations and fictions etc..

    There are no material proofs (cemetries cultic places) which can support the romanian (vlach) existence in present-day territory of romania before the 1200s. There are no CONTEMPORARY written documents about the existence Vlachs (neo-latino speaking population) in the territory of later Vallachia Moldavia Transylvania before the 1200s.

    WERE WERE YOU HIDING for 900 years dear “daco”-romans?

    The neo-latin elements in Romanian language remain the best proof agaist daco-roman theory. Unlike other neo-latin languages, there are no proofs for development of dacian language into a neo-latin language, because there are not remained dacian vocabulary for the posterior. The dacian conquest was the shortest lasting conquest of the Roman Empire in Europe, it lasted only 160years, the relations between the roman legions and dacians remianed hostile. Note: The barbarisation of the Roman army was very massive and rapid since the end of the first century, the 90% of the “Roman” army had not Roman or central-Italian ancestry. The contemporary multi-ethnic legionaries were Roman citizens, but they were recruited from various primarily multinational, non-Latin provinces, so THEY WERE NOT ROMANS/LATINS. This very short & hostile circumstance are not an ideal contingency for romanization process. There are no CONTEMPORARY historic records for the survive of dacians after the Roman withdrawal, and later the territory was the FOCAL POINT of great migrations. The area saw serials of many strong powerfull and brutal barbaric tribes and people such as Huns, Goths, Gepids Longobards, Avars, Pechenegs later Slavs and Cumans. UNLIKE the Vlach ancestors of modern Romanians, all of these barbarian tribes WERE HISTORICALLY RECORDED countless times in contemporary written sources in the dark age & early medieval period. After the centuries barbarian invasions, the written records mentioned only Slavic speaking populations in the area under turkic- Cuman rule, but they didn’t mention the existence of any neo-latino speaking population. There are tons of contemporary written documents (chronicles from early medieval to high medieval era etc.) about the shepherd nomad Vlachs in the Balkan peninsula, but there are no material or written proofs for their existence in the present-day territory of Romania before the 1200s. However the roman rule lasted for 500+ years in many territories of Balkan peninsula (where vlachs were often mentioned by many early medieval chronicles) There is also no trace of lingual influence from any of the other peoples who lived in Transylvania after the withdrawal of the Romans, the Huns, Goths, Gepids Longobards, Avars, Pechenegs and Cumans. If these languages did not have any influence on the Rumanian language, we can be sure that this is proof that at that time there were no Wallachian settlers in Transylvania. Let’s don’t forget, that the old Romanian language also contained ALBANIAN SUBSTRATUM. During the creation of romanian literary language and language reforms in the 19th century, the high ratio of south-slavic, albanian and turkic words were purged from old romanian language, and they were replaced by adopted modern French Italian and other modern-era neo-latin words, French and Italian neologisms and even full borrowed modern expressions (which were not belong to the original ancient latin and vulgar latin language) Of course these modern western romance expressions and words simply did not exist in the era original ancient latin speaking populations or in the vulgar latin languages.

    The territory of modern romania belonged to the Bulgaria first, later it came under Byzantine rule. From the late 11th century, the territory was occupied and ruled by the turkic Cuman tribes. After the mongol invasion in 1240, nomadic Vlachs (romanians) started to migrate towards modern romania, and their (turkic) cuman overlords (like the wallachian state-founder Basarab) established their first Vlach romanian principalities. Romanian lands became vassal state of the Hungarian kings and later they were vassals of Polish kings. In the 16th century, romania became an Ottoman province until the Congress of Berlin in 1878.
    Since the 16th century the settled life became dominant lifestyle among the formerly mostly nomadic-shepherd romanians. It doesn’t sound a very important heroic and interesting history…

    • wolfi

      You brought this racist fascist crap up repeatedly in the last years,
      well you don’t have to be banned though – it’s better that everybody
      can see what kind of lunatics Hungary has!

      • Ádám Ferenczy

        Do the scholarly articles hurt your anti-hungarian eyes? You are just a stupid uneducated proletarian boy, from a primitive family backround! Go back to the German factory where your primitive ancestors worked for your idiotic third reich!

        • wolfi

          Nowadays in these factories we have Hungarians (and Turks, Poles, Rumanians, …) – who are very happy to work for us because they get paid much more …

          Your idol Horthy admired the Third Reich – don’t you remember?

          https://www.flagmagazin.hu/userfiles/text/horthy_hitler_autoban(1).jpg

          • Ádám Ferenczy

            Is Horthy your idol?

  • Ádám Ferenczy

    LACHS (Romanians) WERE THE LATEST NOMADIC ETHNIC GROUP IN EUROPE, the vast majority of Romanian population preserved its nomadic lifestyle and heritage until the end of 16th century. They were known as late – nomadic people in medieval chronicles. The first romanian vlach churches were built only around the turn of the 13th and 14th century. No known archiutecture existed before that period. The romanian literacy and their earliest chronicles appeared only in the early 17th century (Grigore Ureche’s chronicle). USE Google books! (The word’s largest digitalized library, the largest collection of printed books) See the google book results (search the british american candian authors about medieval romanians Vlachs):

    Link to the book:
    https://books.google.com/books?id=bRZaCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA12&dq=romanians+nomad+vlach+-romani+-gypsy&hl=hu&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwikreS0gsDLAhUsEJoKHVa7B884ChDoAQgrMAI#v=onepage&q=romanians%20nomad%20vlach%20-romani%20-gypsy&f=false

    B. Fowkes (2002) : Ethnicity and Ethnic Conflict in the Post-Communist World -PAGE: 12

    “That curious minority, the Vlachs of the Balkans, for example, were on the face of it Romanians (‘Wallachians’) but in fact the name was also applied to Slavs who shared the same pastoral, nomadic life as the Romanian shepherds.”

    Link to the book:
    https://books.google.com/books?id=_q14xoaXj1UC&pg=PA181&dq=are+held+to+be+interlopers+who+were+nomadic+shepherds+that+migrated+into+Transylvania&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi2t46kkMLLAhXCkg8KHYWzDuIQ6AEIGzAA#v=onepage&q=are%20held%20to%20be%20interlopers%20who%20were%20nomadic%20shepherds%20that%20migrated%20into%20Transylvania&f=false

    Norman Berdichevsky (2004): Nations, Language and Citizenship -page: 181.

    “The “true Romanians” are held to be interlopers who were nomadic shepherds that migrated into Transylvania from the … then transferred to “Wallachia,” the traditional core area of the Romanian state located east and south of Transylvania.”

    Link to the book:
    https://books.google.com/books?id=Xoww453NVQMC&pg=PA128&dq=romanians+nomad+vlach+-romani+-gypsy&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwikreS0gsDLAhUsEJoKHVa7B884ChDoAQhYMAg#v=onepage&q=romanians%20nomad%20vlach%20-romani%20-gypsy&f=false

    Victor Roudometof (2002): Collective Memory, National Identity, and Ethnic Conflict: Greece, Bulgaria, and the Macedonian Question – PAGE: 128

    “The Vlachs are mainly pastoral nomads dispersed among the states of Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Greece, Albania, and Romania. Since they are Orthodox Christians, they have mostly become part of the predominantly Eastern Orthodox …”

    Link to the book:
    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=WDRzBwAAQBAJ&pg=PA309&dq=%22nomadic+vlachs%22+-roma+-gypsy&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiP2KihoMDLAhWnZpoKHc0qBrwQ6AEIKTAC#v=onepage&q=%22nomadic%20vlachs%22%20-roma%20-gypsy&f=false

    Roumen Daskalov, ?Alexander Vezenkov – 2015: Entangled Histories of the Balkans – Volume Three: Shared Pasts, Disputed Legacies PAGE: 309

    “Zlatarski adds an a priori statement that the very thought of an uprising could occur only to Bulgarian local notables or voivods, not to the nomadic Vlachs, who he says were at a low level of cultural development”

    Link to the book:
    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=kpEc8ltyqnUC&pg=PA408&dq=nomadic+wallachians++-romani+-gypsy+-roma&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiunZGSicDLAhUqCZoKHWckBsAQ6AEIRTAG#v=onepage&q=nomadic%20wallachians%20%20-romani%20-gypsy%20-roma&f=false

    Rob Humphreys, ?Susie Lunt, ?Tim Nollen – 2002 : Rough Guide to the Czech & Slovak Republics – Page 408

    “Wallachian culture As far as anybody can make out, the Wallachs or Vlachs were semi-nomadic sheep and goat farmers who settled the mountainous areas of eastern Moravia and western Slovakia in the fifteenth century.”

    Link to the book:
    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=YXwUAQAAIAAJ&q=%22wallachians+were%22+nomadic&dq=%22wallachians+were%22+nomadic&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjuw6y1l8DLAhWlNJoKHREED8gQ6AEILzAE

    Marek Koter, ?Krystian Heffner – 1999 : Multicultural regions and cities – Page 164

    “Nomadic shepherds from the Balkan Peninsula (Wallachians) were moving along the bow of the Carpathians in search of new pastures. ”

    Link to the book:
    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=108MAQAAMAAJ&q=%22wallachian+people%22+nomadic&dq=%22wallachian+people%22+nomadic&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjcoez8l8DLAhWqA5oKHcdnCLgQ6AEIHDAA

    Marek S. Szczepański Wydawn. Uniwersytetu Śląskiego, Jan 1, 1997 – Ethnic Minorities & Ethnic Majority: Sociological Studies of Ethnic Relations in Poland -PAGE: 325
    “They were just the Wallachian people (nomadic tribes from the present Romania) from who contemporary Lemks descended; it should be testified by both the elements of material culture, similarities of customs and languages”

    Link to the book:
    https://books.google.com/books?id=owY4AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA251&dq=into+Walachia+and+continued+their+pastoral+and+semi-nomadic+life+in+Transylvania+and+the+Carpathian+Mountains.&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi8x-avo8DLAhWkdpoKHVjzArQQ6AEIHTAA#v=onepage&q=into%20Walachia%20and%20continued%20their%20pastoral%20and%20semi-nomadic%20life%20in%20Transylvania%20and%20the%20Carpathian%20Mountains.&f=false

    Normal J. G. Pounds – 1976 – : An Historical Geography of Europe 450 B.C.-A.D. 1330, Part 1330 -PAGE: 251

    “The chief importance of the Vlachs lies, however, in the possible relationship to the Romanians. … Ages, crossed the Danube into Walachia and continued their pastoral and semi-nomadic life in Transylvania and the Carpathian Mountains.”

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