June 14th, 2017

EU launches infringement procedure against Hungary for not taking in refugees

The European Commission has initiated infringement procedures against Hungary, Poland and the Czech Republic for those countries’ failing to implement the community’s earlier decision on refugee quotas. EU Commissioner Dimitris Avramopoulos, in charge of migration issues, said that the commission was sending an official note to the three countries, which signals the start of proceedings in connection with the quota mechanism under which 120,000 asylum seekers would be redistributed. The mechanism was accepted by a majority vote of EU interior ministers in September 2015, with Hungary and others voting against.

The commission said that the body had repeatedly called on members that had not received any asylum seekers from other countries, yet Hungary, Poland and the Czech Republic have failed to take measures accordingly. Avramopoulos said that the community would not leave members on the outskirts of the EU with no assistance, but insisted that each country must participate in the resettlement mechanism.

Participation is not a matter of choice but an obligation based on a community decision; EU members must be loyal not only to migrants fleeing from war but to fellow members, too, he said. The commissioner voiced hope that governments of the three countries would review their position and in the end “common sense and a European spirit” will prevail.

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  • Participation is not a matter of choice but an obligation based on a community decision

    Yes, there is nothing like A Free Lunch…

    • FUCeausescu

      Yes, there is nothing like cultural genocide against native cultures. Forcing a foreign population on a distinct incumbent population is the very definition of that crime. It is no different from what the Chinese are doing in Tibet.

      • Well, you claim to be one of the Invading Magyars, so you definitely know what you are speaking about… https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3fa2e538b3de98e59c9e4ee7c3e8686b895dc9ed6657359ccc9f17c1f6f309a9.jpg

        • FUCeausescu

          Going by your logic, the extermination or destruction of countless native American cultures by European colonists was no biggy! After all, the Huron did not occupy the exact land they were on when the Europeans arrived, since the beginning of time, neither did the Cherokee, the Hopi, and so on. Now please, oh please make an effort to come to North America, go down to a native reservation, or a neighborhood predominantly inhabited by natives and explain this to them. They should not even consider themselves natives, right? Wanna bet you will not live through it? Stop your bigoted, hate-filled attacks on natives!

          • No, but the interesting part is that you now have declared the Magyar Honfoglalás illegal… https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f750f17bd6c4a48f9ea053d66bd84a1ec37eecfc7fe7f532f4ba983d4888fa45.jpg

          • wolfi

            Viking, when Hungarians do something it’s totally different (at least in our little FUC*er’s mind …)!

            One of my brothers in law is a total history buff so when he visited us we went to see everything which wasat least a thousand years old and several small museums here in Western Hungary where we were shown who lived here before the “Huns” came …

            It was really surprising for me – before and after the Romans left there were so many waves of people coming in which are forgotten now, the Avars etc and then of course the various Slav populations – fascinating!
            But that all changed of course when “the real people” came around 1100 years ago – evrybody else doesn’t count!
            PS:
            I’ve even read crazy stories that the “Hungarians” lived in Pannonia thousands of years ago (jesus was a Hungarian too – of course) and then came back to “their” country …
            And of course the Hungarian language was the first …

            But then I’ve also read crazy stories that Jesus was the son of a Germanic soldier …

          • Not only Avars, etc. Already under King Decebalus (ruled Dacia 87-106 CE) which consisted of today’s Hungary Jews who aided him in his war against Rome to settle in his territory, so even the Jews predates the Magyars…

          • Illiberal Revolution

            It’s insulting that you compare the Hungarian homecoming with Avar Slavic or migrant untermensch.

          • FUCeausescu

            No, but the interesting part, is that you indirectly declared native American status illegitimate through your logic, so please do come down here. I promise to take you down to some of these communities myself, so you can explain your theories. Although I will make sure to let them know that I by no means agree with you, after which I will leave, so I do not have to be a witnesses.

          • I promise to take you down to some of these communities myself

            If you were not invited there, then you are a part of the invasion you hate – but sorry You are Magyar, so different rules apply…Sorry, my fault – forgot that (for a while)

          • Illiberal Revolution

            There was no invasion only homecoming. Nobody else lived here and we took the land ourselves.

          • “Nobody else lived here and we took the land ourselves.”

            Yes, it shows your Jewish roots…here it was the Puszta, there it was the Desert.

          • wolfi

            I was just thinking about the fun we would have if we put FUC* and Illiberal in one room discussing their crazy ideas – watching them …
            There was no invasion only homecoming. Nobody else lived here and we took the land ourselves.
            Marvelous!
            PS:
            Though sometimes I tend to wonder whether theyy both aren’t related to Zorroban – real live satire at it’s best, almost as good as “A Tanu”!

          • Yes, the Zorroban-link has my money…

          • ViktorZorroban

            Busted! Or we are brothers from another mother, or we were separated at birth. But all 3 of us are blessed with an extremely low IQ and blind admiration for our Glorious Leader and his gang of Fidesznik Minions.

          • wolfi

            Though sometimes I’m not so sure – however “migrant untermensch” is too much Nazi speak …
            It could of course come from someone like Bayer Zsolt – there are enough real Nazis in Fidesz and Jobbik!

          • FUCeausescu

            I came 100 years after they lost their land and were destroyed. Now me and my tax money are in fact part of their current revival effort. Also, you are yet to clarify how your theories fit with the status of the native Americans. So please explain yourself. Are the native Americans not native, simply because most of their habitat shifted before European colonization?

          • I came 100 years after they lost their land and were destroyed. Now me and my tax money are in fact part of their current revival effort.

            That is what the immigrants to Europe will say 100 years later and according to you, that will be totally OK…hopefully will they be better tax payers than you, who lose your job to any short Asian guy…

          • FUCeausescu

            No, the immigrants to Europe today are the equivalent of the European colonists from the seventeenth-eighteenth century. Only once the European natives will be displaced and most likely meeting an end that will be at least as brutal as what the natives in America experienced and a Caliphate will be established in Europe as your heart desires, will newcomers to Europe be able to say what I am saying.

          • CG Walkman

            And, I thought Baba Vanga was Bulgarian, not Romanian-Canadian.

          • CG Walkman

            And, I thought Baba Vanga was Bulgarian, not Romanian-Canadian.

          • “a Caliphate will be established in Europe”

            Yes, that is your self-fulfilling prophecy, but it never happened right?
            Just one year ago you more or less promised it, then Daesh had 30.000 fighters and could (rather unopposed) keep a huge territory in Syria and Iraq. According to you, it was just a question of (short) time, before Daesh invaded Europe, where they would be very successful, then Europe’s defense was so bad (still according to your prophecy…).
            Problem is that Daesh is getting severely whipped and is dead as any major military force.

            Your other prophecy was that 2017 would be the year Putin would win all Elections in Europe:
            * Wilders in Holland
            * Le Pen in France
            * AfD in Germany

            As with your Daesh success, that can now also be written off as another of your masturbation fantasies. You never managed to see the outcome of the Austrian President Election last Autumn as the sign the tide had turned.
            Now you and Daesh are on the run – Good Question if we will receive you at all when Canada/US will throw you out.
            If I was you, I would start to prepare an alternative life…

          • FUC’s self-fulfilling prophecy, but 180 degrees…
            https://twitter.com/astroehlein/status/875230986660872195

          • FUCeausescu

            Look, I am not interested in your delusions in regards to what you imagined I wrote in the past. I looked at the crap you wrote, and really don’t know what the fuck you are talking about, so won’t even bother.

            I am interested however in getting an answer out of you in regards to how your definition in regards to what constitutes a native culture. Because by your definition, native Americans are not really natives, if we are to apply the same logic as you applied to Hungarians. So what I want to know is whether your bigotry is only directed at Hungarians or all native populations in general? You have been avoiding this answer for a few back and forts now, so please cut the crap and answer.

          • You are the one claiming that the people the Magyars raided, raped and killed had no rights. Not me.

            But cut the bull – is the question of immigration a question of religion or race?

          • FUCeausescu

            Ok, I will answer, it is a matter of a different culture, with a different religion, and overall different values, which are not compatible, and as the recent electoral victory of Islamist Erdogan within Europe’s Turkish diaspora shows, not likely to become compatible either, especially where correlated with large populations. And morons such as yourself do not realize that they are even less compatible with your ideology. You think that you can use them, while in reality the Islamists are using the Western left. Not compatible and a steadily growing population in Europe, versus a declining native population means native population and cultural replacement, which I do realize it is your self-loathing wet dream.

            Now you answer mine, are Hungarians not natives in the region, like you often claimed they are not? Then what about the native Americans, given that most groups fit a similar historical profile?

          • “are Hungarians not natives in the region”

            Of course not. Magyars, Avars, what you want to call them are all invaders, or do you have any proof showing the difference?
            If you are really interested in the last 45.000 years of Homo Sapiens in Europe in general and Carpathian Basin in particular, just check my avatar.

            Regarding race/religion – so you would be OK with 6 million Copts (I assume you know they are Christians and love to eat pork) would immigrate to Europe, or are they not white enough?

            Why would the Copts move to Europe?
            Because if Muslims cannot live in Christian Europe (according to yourself), the Egyptians (read Muslims) can do like we Europeans did in the 30s/40s with the Jews, just export them, then why should we even assume/support Christians minorities living in Muslim-majority countries?
            And being such big Christians, as yourself, you would have no problems helping a Christian Brother, right?

          • FUCeausescu

            OK! Then going back to the original request, please do come over here and explain to all these natives in Canada, with their official native status and all, that they are not natives either, because like I pointed out most groups share a similar historical pattern with the Hungarians. I would really love to see this. It would be quite a show, although It might end with a certain globalist fanatic being used as target practice.

            As for the other crap, you really are clueless! I know Islamists have a globalist outlook as well, therefore you left-fascist-anti-native-globalists think that they are natural allies, but it is a different kind of globalism. It is Islamic-fascism, and their demographic base is expanding rapidly, while yours, which is mainly rooted in the Western world and its base culture, is shrinking. Your brand of globalism will disappear together with Western culture, while you are helping the Islamists take over Europe demographically in the process. I know your delusional mind is banking on an alternative reality, but it really is not the case. You are Islam’s useful idiots, not the other way around!

          • CG Walkman

            “I know Islamists have a globalist outlook as well,…..”

            Wow! Now you also are an expert on Islamists?. What’s the difference between a Muslim and an Islamist? I am probably friends with a few dozen Muslims, and I’ve yet to see one express a “globalist” outlook (whatever the fuck that it). If anything, they all would like to see Islam be reformed for the modern times How many Muslim friends do you have to be able to claim that you know about their outlook? So, what is it in “western” culture which makes you different from me, and whose demise is so eminent (according to you), if more of my friends come here?
            You are Trump and Putin’s useful idiot. Can’t vote for them but can help push their agenda.

          • FUCeausescu

            “If anything, they all would like to see Islam be reformed for the modern times”

            And this is where the bullshit fails to stick together as it hits a wall made up of facts!

            What was the percentage of Turks who voted for Islamist Erdogan in Europe? Surely they must all agree with you that “it must be reformed for the modern times”. Let us not Forget that Turks have been among the most secular in the ME in the past century or so. Fact is that the Muslim world is becoming more radical. It has been the case for many decades now.

            Is there a limit to how much you can bullshit?

          • CG Walkman

            I ask again, how many Muslims do you actually know?

            As far as I can tell from long talks with my friends (5 of whom are leaders within the Muslim community and 1 the son of an imam), the Muslim world is not a unitary bloc. There are elements within who are radicalised, and millions more who are not. India and Indonesia have far more Muslims than Turkey, and the vast majority of them are not radicalised. You are wrongly trying to use a local voting pattern to make a sweeping judgement globally, just as you wrongly concluded that elementary school was racist, without knowing the application rate.

            I can’t bullshit as much as you can from the little pieces of information you piece together. Pretty soon, you’ll be as good as Alex Jones and have your own show to spout nonsense

          • wolfi

            To underline this:
            A young Turkish woman (very nice, very clever, went to school in Germany and later to university) told me that we Germans shouldn’t generalise from “our” Turkish guest workers – most of them were from little villages in Anatolia looking for any kind of work abroad, so very conservative just like the Hungarian village people who vote overwhelmingly for Fidesz/Jobbik …
            And one of the leaders of the German Green party is Cem Özdemir whose parents came as guest workers and stayed like so many Hungarians, sorry Turks … 🙂

            Generally it’s interesting (or rather disturbing …) how many parallels there are between the right wingers of all “religions” all over the world whether they call themselves Christians, Muslims or whatever re Xenophobia, sex matters (education, abortion, LGBT, …) – even the death penalty is their common favourite

          • CG Walkman

            I forgot to mention to Nicolae, that one of my ex-classmates who is teacher now in my old Catholic school, actually makes sure the class says “Our Father” before recess and after school…..and he is Muslim. Just curious, can the Turks in Germany vote? I thought German citizenship was not easy to come by.

            Yes, right wingers everywhere have their heads screwed on the wrong way.

          • FUCeausescu

            Little pieces of information? Really? You are the one who wants to ignore the results of a major election, while insisting on your claim that cannot be verified, not to mention that even if true, in no way proves anything. I know plenty of Muslims as well. They are Sufis from Iran, and of course not representative of Muslims overall.

            It was not just the Turkey referendum. Look at the Egypt vote for Muslim Brotherhood and so on. Now those are statistical facts, which you think do not carry as much weight as your anecdotal evidence that only you know if true or not to begin with.

          • CG Walkman

            Olga can verify that information and contradict me, or don’t you trust your buddy. Our Muslim ambassador to Hungary (he is one of the 5) was often served wine at dinners and events and he didn’t make an issue out of it or feel offended, accepting it as a cultural norm here.

            What was wrong about what I said about India and Indonesia? When I lived in Malaysia, Indonesia had a Muslim cleric as president. Go read about Gus Dur on wiki and his religious views which are considered “hardline” by Indonesian standards, and compare it with the rubbish you’ve spouted. He makes Turkey and Egypt sound primitive even though he was educated in Egypt, Pakistan & Baghdad. I’ve already explained about elections, and the folly of translating local populism into a global issue.

            I doubt any of your Muslim friends have ever read your posts.

            You avoided the 2 questions I asked.
            a. From the perspective of western culture, what is the difference between you and me?
            b. Does Mrs FUC agree that your school conclusion is logical from the “little” data you used?

          • FUCeausescu

            a) For one thing, I am a native, original member of Western culture, you are a colonist. A large influx of a foreign population never ever worked out well for the natives, just ask the Native Americans. Although, in the 1700’s there was not much difference between many European settlers and the natives. They picked up many of the native habits, culture, intermixed and so on.

            b) Is off topic.

            c) Regardless of the views of your ambassador, 75% of Turks living in Belgium, many of them for decades voted for an Islamist to get more power in their home country, and so did two thirds of Turks in Germany. Overall, a large majority of Turks in Europe, which speaks volumes about the rate of Islamist penetration within Europe’s migrant Muslim community. A lot louder than the few friends you have. You are referencing anecdotal evidence, that I am supposed to take your word on, which like I said, still anecdotal, even if true.

          • “I am a native, original member of Western culture”

            Tell that to a Brit, after he understood that you are an Hungarian-speaking from Romania…Why do you think they voted for Brexit?
            Maybe you are not ‘native’ enough?

          • CG Walkman

            a. As an uninvited immigrant from Eastern Europe to Canada, it is you who is the the colonist. I am the one whose country was colonized by your so-called Western Culture. I think a key difference(there are others) between you and me is that you are a entitled white racist.

            b. It is relevant, since you constantly bring up your ability to read data and make conclusions. I’m challenging you on that. If Mrs FUC is unable to enlighten you on why your data and conclusions are wrong, given her “post doctorate” scientific credentials (according to you), then she must be as numerically dumb as you are. If she can, then maybe, there’s hope for you to understand what is lacking in your various analysis.

            c. The reason I brought up my ambassador as an example is that Olga can easily verify that without much effort. There are many things which are on record about what he said about individuals and society. Despite not eating pork, I would think most Europeans and Canadians would agree that he exemplifies “western culture” more than you do.

            I’m not interested in populist voting agendas, whether Muslim or otherwise. You haven’t differentiated between an Islamist and a Muslim. So, would Gus Dur also be an Islamist? He had far more Muslim people voting for him than Erdogan or the Muslim Brotherhood put together. And, furthermore, as a Muslim cleric, he even appointed a woman vice president. Hungary has never had a woman close to any position of power. Given that, and also what Viking said, maybe Hungary isn’t really part of that “western culture” you think.

          • wolfi

            You nailed it!
            Hungary isn’t really part of that “western culture”
            Absolutely true – Fidesz and Jobbik have more in common with the reactionary Muslims (or Russians …)
            than the progressive people of Western Europe where all religions have been sidelined for many years!

            The only difference seems to me that they pray to a different “god” …

          • FUCeausescu

            Don’t know much about Gus Dur, but pretty irrelevant within the context of this conversation. Indonesians may be more moderate Muslims perhaps, but the bulk of the invasion of Europe is coming from places like Afghanistan, Pakistan, North Africa, Syria, Yemen. And there are already many Turks in Europe. Turks who overwhelmingly suport Islamist Erdogan, even though multikulti theory suggests they should have become far more moderate after a presence of their community in Europe that is now decades-old. It turns out they are more Islamist-leaning than their peers in Turkey itself.

            Nowhere did I say that all Muslims are Islamists, but the Muslim world is host to this ideology, which is gaining ground within it, just like Western society became host to the self-ruining liberal-Globalist ideology that not everyone in the Western world is embracing either.

          • “And there are already many Turks in Europe. Turks who overwhelmingly suport Islamist Erdogan”

            What?
            There are between 5-10 million ‘Euro-Turks’ outside European Turkey, most of them inside the EU.
            “The total overseas vote, which was closed before Turkey itself went to the polls, ultimately favoured ‘yes’ by 831,208 votes to 575,365”
            https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/eus-turkish-voters-backed-erdogans-reforms/

            This means between 6-12% of all Turks inside the EU voted for changing Atatürk’s Parliamentarian system, into a Presidential system. That is way smaller % than the % of Hungarians electing Whorban as Viktator…

            Personally I have the same feelings/opinion of Erdogan as Whorban and Putin (or Drumpf), but I do not see anybody of them as ‘Islamist’.

            Sometimes facts are not bad…

          • FUCeausescu

            Yes the facts. Why do you automatically assume that the ones who did not vote, did not feel the same way? The ones who voted are the ones who had their papers in order, had the opportunity to vote and were interested in doing so. Expat vote always tends to be low. For instance, of about four million Romanian expats, only about 200,000-300,000 tend to vote in most elections. Most find it unreasonably difficult to vote. I for instance do not have the necessary documentation to do so. The ones who do vote however tend to be considered a snapshot of overall mood of the diaspora.

          • “Why do you automatically assume that the ones who did not vote, did not feel the same way?”

            Because we are speaking about FACTS!
            Facts are like how people vote, not how you want to believe how people think who did not vote…

            Or, are all Hungarians who do not explicitly vote for Whorban/Fidesz, actually supporters of Gyurcsany?
            That is what I feel, so that must be totally correct!

          • CG Walkman

            …but the Muslim world is host to this ideology,

            You admit not knowing much about Gus Dur, Muslims in Indonesia or India, whose numbers (according to Wiki, 400m) make up more than all the Muslims in the Middle East & North Africa (320m). Yet, you claim to speak about the “Muslim world” by ignoring inconvenient numbers (am I suprised?). Actually, I don’t even think you (as an Eastern European) even have sufficient knowledge to speak about a Western society, let alone the “Muslim world”.
            You’re no different from a hillbilly who left his hick world, but still views everything through the prism of his limited view of what western culture really is. You may have lived for a while in a western society, but you’re similar to those overseas Turks who voted for Erdogan, or an Islamist who still think the world is living in the middle ages.

          • wolfi

            The Turks outside the home country vote for Erdogan just like Magyars outside Hungary vote for Orbán – funny that you don’t see the similarities …

          • “I know plenty of Muslims as well. They are Sufis from Iran”

            Good, ask them of
            Abu ‘Abd Allah Muhammad b. ‘Abd Allah b. Masarra b. Najih al-Jabali (Arabic: أبو عبد الله محمد بن عبد الله بن مسرة بن نجيح الجبلي‎‎) (883–931)
            He was an Andalusi Muslim ascetic and scholar. He is considered one of the first Sufis as well as one of the first philosophers of Al-Andalus.

            “Al-Andalus” also known as Muslim Spain or Islamic Iberia, was a medieval Muslim territory and cultural domain occupying at its peak most of what are today Spain and Portugal.

            Given that they were in Spain/Portugal before the Hungarians arrived to the Carpathian Basin, does that not make Muslims Native Europeans?
            (I am just trying to understand how your ‘logic works’…)

          • “all these natives in Canada, with their official native status and all, that they are not natives either, because like I pointed out most groups share a similar historical pattern with the Hungarians”

            So, regardless of extremely much facts exists on the ground that the Carpathian Basin was full of people the last 40-45.000 years, as being the first place in Europe to be inhabited by Homo Sapiens, you still claim that the “Hungarians” (whatever that is, then you consistently refuse to use the expression ‘Magyars’?) are the natives to the land, not just the latest invaders/occupiers…

            Maybe you could start to explain what ‘Hungarians’ are, in your eyes, supporting your claim they have superior rights to the Carpathian Basin?

            Does a Hungarian Jew, and Hungarian Schwab, an Hungarian Armenian, an Hungarian Roma, or any of the other 14 official Minorities in Hungary, the same Native Rights to the Carpathian Basin as your (very much self-alleged) ‘White Hungarian’ Native Rights?

          • FUCeausescu

            You twist it, turn it flip it, but in the end you are in effect denying that native Americans are natives. After all, the Cree were somewhat more to the south 1,000 years ago, the Ojibva somewhere more to the East, and the Souix never used to occupy that much space 1,000 years ago. So none of them are natives. BTW, if you were to come to Canada and start spewing this garbage in regards to the natives here, it would be your fellow liberals who would be the first ones to lynch you. As for the natives, they really might consider using you for target practice. Their native status means a lot to them. I don’t think they would appreciate you claiming we are all Homo Sapiens.

          • “in effect denying that native Americans are natives”

            Never ever, as long as they were the first Homo Sapiens in an area. Now there are different explicit definitions of what is “Native Americans”, but if we regard “pre-Columbian indigenous population of North America” as that, then they were obviously the first Homo Sapiens on that part of the Continent.

            You on the other hand, cannot credible claim that the ‘Hungarians’ are the Native to the Carpathian Basin, then that is the prize my ancestors claim.

          • FUCeausescu

            “Never ever, as long as they were the first Homo Sapiens in an area”. I don’t think there are too many tribes that fit that category, because like I pointed out, most regions had previous cultures inhabiting, which were different from the current tribes. Therefore, in your view, most native Americans should be stripped of their native status. So, please do come over here to spew your anti-native hatred. It should be very interesting!

          • “I don’t think there are too many tribes that fit that category”

            You of course deliberately took that out of context – I am speaking about “pre-Columbian indigenous population of North America” as Native Americans – which I explicitly pointed out in my post.
            What you are speaking about I doubt even if you know…

            So what has “pre-Columbian indigenous population of North America” to do with an invading army of Magyars into the Carpathian Basin?
            We are speaking about Aboriginal Europeans, or now Europe is all over Asia also?

          • FUCeausescu

            Yes, and I am speaking of the pre-Non-European muslim migration into Europe. Before this started, Hungarians were living in the Carpathian basin for 1,200 years, just like the Cree on the fucking prairies. The Cree also moved in at some point, displacing others, just like the Magyars in the Carpathian basin. You are so fucking absurd!

          • “Hungarians were living in the Carpathian basin for 1,200 years”

            Yes, but NOT on the invitation of the Natives living there already. ‘Hungarians’ were as invited as you were fleeing to Canada…so why should modern day’s Hungarians treat today’s refugees differently than Canada’s Native Americans (which I believe in Canada is 1st Nation and not your pro-US talk)?

          • FUCeausescu

            “Yes, but NOT on the invitation of the Natives living there already.” Yes, and obviously the Navaho were invited to take the land they lived on when the Europeans arrived, from the predecessor cultures. Can your arguments be more idiotic?

          • “Can your arguments be more idiotic?”

            I still cannot submerge your level, who claim ‘Hungarians’ are ‘Native Europeans’, without defining what a ‘Native European’ is, or even an ‘Hungarian’ – Jew, Roma, Schwab, Armenian, Italian – all different cultures, officially acknowledged as Minorities in Hungary.
            Why should they be allowed in Hungary if not a Christian Copt is?

          • FUCeausescu

            You refuse to acknowledge the fact that European natives (Hungarians, Poles, Germans, Italians, Greeks and so on) have just as much right to call themselves natives in Europe as the Cree or Navaho in North America. And as such, they have the right to refuse mass colonization from outside Europe, given that it can be just as harmful.

            Instead you engage in idiotic splitting of hairs over who can be considered native and who cannot. That is what makes your arguments overall idiotic.

          • ‘Native’ in this sense means ‘Aboriginal’ and no “Hungarians, Poles, Germans, Italians, Greeks and so on” qualify for that.
            Then Native/Aboriginal/Indigenous = First according to historical or scientific records; original; indigenous; primitive

            In Europe people like the Basque (France/Spain, but good question if anybody still live in a ‘primitive’ way), Samer (Most Northern Norway/Sweden/Finland/Murmansk, here we have tens of thousands living the old way) and the Etruscans (but they are wiped out now, only graves left).

            This is not splitting hair, this is respecting Aboriginal people and not letting White Supremacist stealing their identity.

            I never claimed that people cannot close their borders, just look at North-Korea – I just claim that it is not a good idea and will lead to more problems.
            You, a serial refugee, have the stomach to claim that other refugees should not have the same opportunities as yourself – that is the problem – you, not the refugees.

          • FUCeausescu

            OK, got it. Europeans have no right to preserve their own distinct ethno-cultural identities, because we are white. We have a supreme duty to commit ethno-cultural suicide by allowing for mass colonization of Europe. Love your vision!

          • “Europeans have no right to preserve their own distinct ethno-cultural identities”

            IF you really want to do that, then you should define what those “distinct ethno-cultural identities”, without insulting Aboriginal people.

            So can you describe those “distinct ethno-cultural identities” that unites ALL Europeans, removing the differences the different European Nationalities have from each other, which still make some of the ones not yet inside the EU fight each other?

          • FUCeausescu

            Cut the crap! Do the distinct native European ethno-cultural entities have the right to say no to mass-colonization in your view or not? It is a simple yes or no!

          • “the distinct native European ethno-cultural entities”

            What is that?
            A Serb Orthodox Christian?
            A Bosniak Muslim?
            An Hungarian Jew?
            A Romanian Roma?
            A North-Irish Protestant?
            A Greek Orthodox Christian?
            A Basque?
            A Swedish Reindeer Sami?
            A Norwegian Sea Sami?

            What is The “distinct native European ethno-cultural entities” for these totally disparate ethnic groups?
            They are not even all ‘white’…

          • FUCeausescu

            We can disagree in regards to the definitions and who fits or not. But I am simply stating the existence of distinct native European cultures and my belief that they have the right to preserve those cultures by among other things rejecting mass-colonization. Agree? Not?

            I know that you would like to define in a way that claims that anybody on this planet can be considered native European, because you want to promote the continent’s mass-colonization, but it is simply not the case. It is just hate-mongering directed against Europeans and their right to preserve their culture that you hate so much.

          • “I am simply stating the existence of distinct native European cultures”

            ..but you cannot define that animal, not even describe it…so what can be ‘preserved’ if it cannot be defined/described?

            WHAT are we to agree upon?
            Ask those so many Iranian Sufism followers you know in Canada what they think of the Caliphate of Córdoba, al-Andalus, which was a beacon of learning, and the city of Córdoba became one of the leading cultural and economic centres in Europe and throughout the Mediterranean Basin and the Islamic world. A number of achievements that advanced Islamic and Western science came from al-Andalus including major advances in trigonometry (Geber), astronomy (Arzachel), surgery (Abulcasis), pharmacology (Avenzoar), and other fields. Al-Andalus became a major educational center for Europe and the lands around the Mediterranean Sea as well as a conduit for culture and science between the Islamic and Christian worlds.
            Was that wrong or non-European?

          • FUCeausescu

            Oh yes it can! Ask anyone about Hungarian culture, they will automatically say Europe. If you ask them about Arab culture, they will say ME. They cannot be confused, both are distinct and different. European culture is made up of dozens of such distinct identities. You want to erase them through mass-colonization, frantically trying to erase those distinctions.

          • “European culture is made up of dozens of such distinct identitieHs”

            Yes, whoever denied that?
            That ‘Hungarians’ claim ‘European’ when in Europe and ‘American’ when in the US, does not mean that they are ‘European’ or ‘American’.
            Both of us knows that your British friends will not regard ‘Hungarians’ or ‘Romanians’ as ‘Europeans’, THAT was the reason they voted for Brexit.

            Brexit just shows that you are wrong – if the Brits do not regard ‘Hungarians’ as ‘Europeans’, why should the rest of us do that?

            So is your problem with ‘Arabs’ or ‘Muslims’?
            You avoid answering if Egyptian Copts (you still remember they are Christians?) would/should be allowed in Europe…Why is that so hard to answer?

          • FUCeausescu

            “”European culture is made up of dozens of such distinct identitieHs”

            Yes, whoever denied that?”

            So there are dozens of distinct native cultures in Europe then. In other words Slovaks ares Slovaks, not Pillipinos, or Africans.

            And yet you keep insisting on the mass-colonization of the continent, just because millions of non-Europeans wish to come settle every year. Then how the fuck are you any different from the bigoted Europeans who used to call for the mass-settlement of North America with Europeans, just because millions of them wanted to settle there? Are you not in fact calling for the extinction of these distinct cultures? They used to call that “progress”, you call yourself “progressive”. I guess not much has changed!

          • “So there are dozens of distinct native cultures in Europe then. In other words Slovaks ares Slovaks, not Pillipinos, or Africans”

            Now you are insulting the Basque and Sami again…There is no “Native Slovak” culture. Normally people like you do not even want to acknowledge there is even a Slovak country…Its whole history takes just one SMS to describe is what your ilk always claimed here before…

            But Slovakia is a good example – An ethnic Hungarian born in Slovakia – Is he a Slovak or Hungarian?

          • FUCeausescu

            No native Slovak culture, no native Hungarian culture. So what the fuck are we in your twisted head? Disposables of humanity that should be exterminated, erased out of existence through mass colonization by ME-Africans?

            That is fucking racist what you just concluded here, because further up you proclaimed aboriginal cultures to be worthy of protection from extinction, while in this case it is not the case. Heck, Hungarians, Slovaks do not even exist! We just imagine ourselves to belong to a certain distinct ethnicity. It is racist, because you automatically declare aboriginal identity as worth more. more/less, superior/inferior. Those are the classic definitions of racist concepts, you fascist-globalist-pig!

          • “So what the fuck are we in your twisted head?”

            If you were born in Romania, as part of the Hungarian minority, you are probably an Hungarian, even if you will have the extra right to see yourself as a Romanian, but you will, until rejecting it officially, be a Romanian citizen.

            Now you tell me how a Roma or Jew born in Hungary has not the right to claim he/she is Hungarian?
            And why a Filipino or a Swede born in Hungary would not have the same right?

          • FUCeausescu

            Because citizenship and ethnicity are two different things. They may have the right to Hungarian citizenship, but they are not part of the Hungarian ethnic identity, they have their own distinct identities. BTW, the groups you mentioned tend to stick to those identities, and many might take offense to you wanting to erase that and melt them into Hungarian ethnic identity.

            I know where you are trying to drive this concept. You are trying to claim that migrants become part of the host ethnic makeup. But that is not always the case. If the demographic shift happens too fast, or it happens within the context of the original incumbent population that makes up that ethnic group shrinking in size for whatever reason, it leads to ethno-cultural replacement and the destruction of those ethnic groups. Going back to the original argument, the replacement of the cultures which became hosts to your twisted ideology, which you want to see replaced with another culture that is host to another globalist agenda, an Islamist-Globalist agenda. That is where your ideology will lose out, together with the original ethnic groups that make up European culture as known until recently (Pre-colonization). After all, do you really see all those Turks in Europe who voted for expanding Islamist Erdogan’s powers to be the same ideologically as yourself?

          • “citizenship and ethnicity are two different things”

            Correct, so that means that it is OK to have several different ethnic minorities inside the same citizenship, as we have in typical immigrant countries like Hungary and Sweden. Remember that Hungary has officially 13 National and 1 Ethnic Minorities, and as you say, some people born as Hungarians around Europe want to continue regarding themselves as Hungarians, where ever they were born.

            I cannot see that there is any reason why we should not let every citizen in Europe have the same rights as people born in Hungary, or as Hungarians.

            If we, like you want, deny all people in Europe to hail the ethnicity of their choice, then we are not better than those Brits who voted for Brexit on the grounds that there were too many East-Europeans in the UK, who did not want to integrate, did not eat English food, but Hungarian Salami and Polish sausages and spoke bad English.
            So, what are you – Hungarian or Brexiteer?

          • FUCeausescu

            The concept which you pretend not to get is the following:

            Take a bottle of red wine. Add a teaspoon of water, 1 ml of vanilla extract, perhaps a touch of white wine, and you can still have wine. A little bit changed, but still wine. Some may say it is better than the original.

            But if you add 10 litters of water, and ten liters of coke, ten litters of OJ, pickled vegetable juice, milk and some other liquids, do you still have wine? Will it taste at all like wine? Will it still be red? Or perhaps you just exterminated that wine?

            Sure, you now have a new product, and you may claim it is better or worse than the original wine you started with, but for better or worse, the wine is now lost. Not a single person tasting the new cocktail will be able to tell what that wine ever tasted like.

            This sums up my view of your globalist agenda. You wish to see all humanity poured in one container and mixed into uniformity. I personally prefer the world of diverse drinks, including wine, OJ, water and coke.

            BTW, you will succeed in destroying the host culture to your twisted ideology, like I keep saying, but it will be as far as it will go.

          • “Take a bottle of red wine”

            Yes, you obviously ‘took’ quite a few already…

            But, for the case of argumentation, where is the border/limit?
            1%, 10%, 20% – when does a country become Muslim?

            And then you compare your figure with Putin’s Russia today:
            “In Russia, Islam is the second most widely spread religion after Orthodox Christianity; some 20 million Muslims living in the country make up around 15 percent of the population”
            https://www.rt.com/news/349499-fitr-moscow-muslims-celebrate/

            Is Russia today a Muslim Nation?

          • FUCeausescu

            For you the limit is most likely closer to 100%.

            And there is a big difference between Russia, where the only Muslim demographic gain comes from higher birth rates and Western Europe where it is the higher birth rates and a constant, and lately accelerating influx.

            As far as my wine analogy, the latest from Sweden is that the wine perhaps was spiked with some poison.

            http://www.newsweek.com/sweden-sees-influx-thousands-islamist-extremists-spy-chief-says-626581

            “CLOSE
            How ISIS Went Global

            WORLDSWEDENISIS
            Sweden has witnessed a surge in Islamist extremists: from 200 less than a decade ago to “thousands,” in 2017, the Scandinavian country’s spy chief said Friday.

            “We have never seen anything like this before,” Anders Thornberg, chief of the Swedish Security Service (SAPO), told the country’s TT news agency.”

          • “And there is a big difference between Russia, where the only Muslim demographic gain comes from higher birth rates and Western Europe where it is the higher birth rates and a constant, and lately accelerating influx”

            Well, all that wine obviously made you get very excited over ‘higher birth rate’, then both Russia and Western Europe have that, but that still manifests the difference…

            Russia is a poor country, with a shrinking economy and falling living standards, so of course very few people wants to go there in general. Actually many people, especially in the majority Muslim parts of Russia wants to leave Russia and form independent, new, countries, like Chechnya, but Putin does not accept that. On the other hand all those Muslims leaving would make for a more Whiter and Christian Russia, which in your eyes may just be better.

            The EU is THE richest major area in the world, it is the area where most of the people moving to may create a decent/acceptable living for their children on an acceptable level. Integration is not the greatest, as you are a living testament to. Also European history has been a bloody one, where fellow Europeans have killed each other for thousands of years, but that has subsided with the introduction of the EU. Hence the EU has become the richest and most prosperous major part of the world.

            And continuing keeping the EU the richest part of the world is the aim of the EU. To be able to do that, the EU need more people and as our birth rate is too low to sustain that, we still need immigration for at least decades to come.

            Will immigration change the face, the culture and religion of the EU?
            Somewhat, yes, but not very much, then historically the great immigration 2015 was less than a million (some were doubled counted in Greece and Germany, later corrected) in an area of over 500 million citizens. That is less than 0.2% in a year, but felt, as we were not really prepared for it, as much.

            The big problem in the EU regarding immigration is integration, as in any immigrant target. How fast can the new arrivals be integrated into society, so they can start to build their new life and hence contribute to the common good?
            Here your current attitudes are not very unhelpful, like the attitudes of the Brits, who voted for Brexit. The interesting part is that neither of you, you personally or the Brits, wants to be a part of the EU. You prefer to live in Canada, maybe even more liberal and immigration-friendly than the EU, and the Brits will try to struggle along promoting non-European ‘native English-speakers’, like Indians and Pakistanis, some from Asia, some from Africa, to immigrate to the UK and pop up their too low birth rates. The Brits prefer them to you East-Europeans, regardless if you come from Hungary or Romania. You may think that this is the loss of the Brits, but that is undoubtedly their decision and as we, unlike Putin’s Russia, actually accept that people do not want to live with us any more, we allow them to leave, even if they refuse to pay the bill…

            The biggest change, immigration-wise, for every citizen in the EU has not been non-European immigration the last 70 years, it has been the huge movement of EU-citizens mainly from East to West parts of the EU. This is what has affected people living in both East and West. The Brits reacted by leaving, but as what we can see they are alone among the different member states. There is just no appetite for any other member state to leave, even those who has been a target for Hungarians, Romanians and Poles.

            Does immigration only change the resident people, or also the immigrants?
            Of course and as your biggest problem is with Muslims (whatever that is, then you cannot give a proper description of what a Muslim is) there are changes being made to even to practising Muslims, like the Ruschd-Goethe mosque is named in honor of the Arabic Islam scholar, physician and philosopher Ibn Ruschd (1126-1198), and the German poet and philosopher, Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (1749-1832).
            http://www.dw.com/en/everyone-is-welcome-at-berlins-ibn-rushd-goethe-mosque/a-39287121
            Here burkas are not allowed, but even women can become Imams and lead the prayers.

            You should ask your so many Sufi Iranians, you claim to know, about this Averroës, medieval Latin Averrhoës, also called Ibn Rushd, Arabic in full Abū al-Walīd Muḥammad ibn Aḥmad ibn Muḥammad ibn Rushd (born 1126, Córdoba [Spain]—died 1198, Marrakech, Almohad empire [now in Morocco]), influential Islamic religious philosopher who integrated Islamic traditions with ancient Greek thought.

            Is that not interesting that there was a world-leading Muslim Caliphate in Europe, even inside today’s EU, before even the Magyars came to the Carpathian Basin?
            What can then be more European?

          • FUCeausescu

            “Will immigration change the face, the culture and religion of the EU?
            Somewhat, yes, but not very much,”

            This is where we differ. 2015 was not an event, but an acceleration of an already existing trend of mass-colonization. The colonization of North America also took a few hundred years.

            Bottom line, members belonging to European ethnic groups shrinking in number, colonists numbers growing. As long as trend continues, the outcome is arithmetically certain, the timeline is the only subject of contention.

            Here we differ, because I think the trend needs to be ended, while you wish it to continue. You claim that it is out of economical considerations. I will not argue with you over the subject of whether it will indeed help the economy in the long-run. I will point out to you however that North America’s economy also expanded exponentially during the colonization period. Today, very few of the remaining natives will say it was worth it for them. But there were natives in the 17’th-19’th centuries who did see things the same way you do. I recommend you read up on chief Pontiac. He was the last hope of turning the tide, or at least stemming it. He was killed by a fellow native, who was one of the many who saw an opportunity in the continued arrival of European colonists. They saw opportunities in trade, in adopting better technology and so on. In other words, they actually saw life as getting better thanks to the European arrivals.

            Or do you believe that Europe will not be changed much when the arithmetic certainty of one population declining and the other continuing to grow will lead to the only possible outcome, namely colonists becoming the majority? What would stop them from using the democratic process to install a Muslim brotherhood government in more and more countries in Europe? Erdogan would win with his fellow Turks in Europe, because as you well know, in a democracy we do not count the votes that were not cast.

            Simply claiming: “Will immigration change the face, the culture and religion of the EU?
            Somewhat, yes, but not very much,” Is one thing. Supporting it with evidence is another. And when it comes to the evidence, I do believe that you do come up short and contradicted by the facts.

          • “The colonization of North America also took a few hundred years”

            OK, we speak about, what for everybody reading this right now, is a huge time-span, which we personally never will may see the end of.

            So, how can we now decide what people centuries later want to do, or describe for them what is right or not?

            Given history, you would also then appreciate the enormous and giant leaps technology has made and we all expect that a few centuries later Mankind is not limited to this Planet only.
            Should we also now decide which skin-colours/religions will be allowed to live on other Planets in the Universe?

            I can understand that you do not want Asian/Africans/Arabs in Europe, as you do not live here, but America, as you totally correct points out, is not an European continent and all non-American Aboriginals are Colonists.
            We agree upon that fact.
            Given that agreement, would you then agree to that all other and non-European people are right to immigrate to the Americas, then Americas cannot just be excluded for the Europeans?
            Or Europeans have exclusive rights to Americas also?

            What about Australia?
            Do you agree that Australia should immediately allow non-European people join the Europeans already there oppress the Australian Aboriginals?

          • FUCeausescu

            I said it took hundreds of years in North America, but keep in mind that many tribes already went extinct in the 1700’s, and there is nothing to say that it will take as long in Europe. And even if it were to take as long, it still doesn’t make it right. In my personal opinion, in the absence of a course change, my children will catch the times when the founding ethnic groups of certain countries in Western Europe will find themselves living under a growing and increasingly dominant Muslim majority. I might even catch the moment when that threshold will be passed in a few countries in Europe. And I do BTW have a potential stake in it, because I never took moving back to Europe off the table. So, your argument is really quite perverse in some ways, because it suggests that current ethnic Europeans should not be concerned with the future of their children or grandchildren. I can tell that you are not. But given that you are dreaming Star Trek dreams in regards to humanity, It does not surprise me. I used to dream that when I will grow up, catching a trip to the moon will be like catching a bus. But then I grew up for real. I suggest you do the same. There is nothing to say that humans will ever be able to reach the edge of our solar system, never-mind colonizing other planets and living there. At this moment we are unable to provide electricity to about a fifth of the world’s population and in my view, we are going to see a massive global economic collapse within a few decades, which might even throw human advancement back a very long time. I don’t think that space colonization is in our cards any time soon, or perhaps ever. I think it will be very hard to justify spending on such things, when there will be so much misery.

          • So, you are a ‘survivor’ who wants to use A White Europe as your bunker – interesting.

            But you avoided to answer my questions on immigration in Americas and Australia, so let me repeat them:
            would you then agree to that all other and non-European people are right to immigrate to the Americas, then Americas cannot just be excluded for the Europeans?
            Or Europeans have exclusive rights to Americas also?

            What about Australia?
            Do you agree that Australia should immediately allow non-European people join the Europeans already there oppress the Australian Aboriginals?

          • FUCeausescu

            I think the founding incumbent populations of these countries have a right to do what is best for themselves and their collective future, as they see fit. I know you do not agree with that, because you want to see one world government and an end to borders and so on. What right do you think you have to demand for these societies to open their borders?

          • “the founding incumbent populations of these countries have a right to do what is best for themselves and their collective future”

            Could you please describe the political process, where:
            * The Native Americans in South Americas and the US
            * 1st Nation in Canada
            * Aboriginals in Australia
            controls the political process and controls these two continents – Americas and Australia?
            You are really suggesting that the colonists from the rest of the World are not in control?

          • FUCeausescu

            The former colonists became the new incumbent population and are in full control at the moment. And as such, it is in their interest to keep it that way, and it is their right to do so, given that these colonists founded the countries you are mentioning. It is also their obligation (the only obligation) to protect the original cultures remaining from further deterioration, which they mostly have been doing for the past few decades. I don’t see the next masters of this land continuing with that frankly! And no, these countries do not have any obligation to just allow anyone in either. We all have the right to do the best for our children & grandchildren.

          • “The former colonists became the new incumbent population”

            Bingo!
            There you reject the kernel of your argument about the “Native Americans”. You have no interest in protecting them, just keeping your White Supremacy alive, then nowhere do you offer any support for ‘non-White’ Christians, suffering under attacks from non-Christians.

            You try to disguise this as a religious problem, while in its essence it is a race problem for you.

            Of course you do not understand that, if you are going to divide the world in different religions and as you claim that other religions cannot live side by side with Christians, the n you also open up for taking responsibility for all Christians in Africa and Asia.

            So would it just not be easier to say White Supremacy, instead of this extremely complicated logic you tried?

          • pantanifan

            This debate between you and Viking sums up the differences between Western Europe and the Visegrád countries (although neither of you speak exclusively for either side). This is the dilemma the EU has to resolve at some stage: I don’t believe compulsory migrant/refugee quotas is a good idea but nor should “Visegrád” be able to prevent those western countries that are willing to accept refugees/migrants from doing so.
            EU is at a crossroads at the moment – the question is whether to go for ever deeper integration or maybe split into a two-speed Europe. The other option would be for a looser trading association (presumably the UK option) but the “founding fathers” of the EU won’t support that idea. What kind of future do you envisage for the EU?

          • “”I looked at the crap you wrote, and really don’t know what the fuck you are talking about, so won’t even bother.”

            Well I did, so here it is – Your opening salvo/claim that Daesh would easily take over Europe…:

            FUCeausescu Hungarian a year ago
            Get some mental help shithead! Tell me how many fighters ISIS has at the moment? Maximum estimate I heard is 30,000. With that number they managed to take a third of Iraq and more than half of Syria. Iraq & Syria together had a combined population of about 50 million. 30,000 is about 0.0006% of the population of those two countries. How many extremists do you figure it will take to take over an aging continent inhabited by extremely docile poodles?”
            https://disqus.com/home/discussion/politicshu/temporary_refugee_facility_under_construction_in_western_hungary/#comment-2548673037

            Then you just continue down your posts/logic…
            Happy to help you out, even if any normal person can understand you want to forget what you wrote just one year ago…

          • “”I looked at the crap you wrote, and really don’t know what the fuck you are talking about, so won’t even bother.”

            Now I remember in 2014 you made a big deal, another typical Kremlin talking point, that the US sanctions against Russia would hurt the US Space program hard.
            Reality was not:
            https://twitter.com/RyskeldiSatke/status/879273178866098176

      • Vidra

        I don’t see many Hungarians protesting about how American materialism, lack of respect for the rights of others and cheerful ignorance of history, traditions, art, literature and philosophy have already undermined traditional European values and culture. A bit late to start whingeing on those grounds because the EU want to foist a few thousand non-white people on you.

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