June 15th, 2017

Quotable: Fidesz group leader commenting on opposition voting against bill on ban of political billboards

“The whole opposition sided with corruption by voting against our bill.”

Fidesz parliamentary group leader Lajos Kósa after the bill initiated by him and three other MPs of the party fell short of the required two-third majority by one vote. 444.hu.
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  • ViktorZorroban
    • wolfi

      Orange is the new Red!

      • ViktorZorroban

        Yes, and Putanists are the new Soviets!

  • Polle

    ““Billboards set up by political parties have no political benefit, since people do not necessarily want to pay attention to politics outside campaign periods” said Strategic Director of the Fidesz-tied Center For Fundamental Rights István Kovács on state television just one day after the National Assembly voted down the governing Fidesz-KDNP coalition’s bill that would have prohibited political parties from setting up political billboards outside campaign periods, reports Hungarian news site 444.hu.

    István Kovács stated that “according to some, the billboard is the product of the previous century and by now it does not have a mobilising power anymore.””

    http://budapestbeacon.com/news-in-brief/political-billboards-no-political-benefit-says-fidesz-tied-researcher-state-tv/47657

    So why is that law so important then?

    And a question to the Fidesz group leader:
    Does Fidesz and the “Family” have exclusive rights to corruption in Hungary?

    • wolfi

      For a Fidesznik it’s only corruption if he’s not in it!
      I’ve written about it – driving along the Balaton it’s kind of funny to watch the Fidesz billboards (containing no information at all) and the Jobbik ones which say clearly:
      They steal!

  • Illiberal Revolution

    Once again the disgusting opposition betrays the nation.

    • ViktorZorroban

      Absolutely! That’s what happens if you vote for gays and hippies; they’ll always try to defend this horrible thing called democracy.
      Let’s hope that in 2018, 115% of the Hungarians will vote for our Glorious Geci so we no longer have to deal with this liberal shit!
      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9c13c35ed7759ebac7d2e8e0255e669d431edc248d34a59cab4ce9006ca44aab.jpg

      • FUCeausescu

        “That’s what happens if you vote for gays and hippies; they’ll always try to defend this horrible thing called democracy.”

        Yeah!!! Gays and hippies, who constantly advocate for the mass-colonization of Europe with the least-democratically minded people they can find on this planet, namely ME-African Muslims. The same people who largely think that the likes of that “lady” in the picture should be given some flying lessons off of a tall building.

        Here is a survey which highlights their “acceptance” of such “ladies” in the Muslim world.

        http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-morality/

        Conclusion, Gays and hippies, as well as feminists and most liberals are extremely masochistic

        • Vidra

          Youe primitive flight or fight instinct doesn’t allow you to accept that tolerance isn’t the same as support or approval. I wouldn’t want to have any female friends close to you or leave my wallet unguarded if you can’t contol your other primitve emotions.

          • FUCeausescu

            Surely not! You probably want your female friends as close as possible to the fine public “gynecologists” who expressed their “enlightened” emotions towards at least 1,200 women in a number of German towns in a single night. The “enlightenment” of Europe sure is coming along under the guidance of the currently dominant liberal ideology, which is especially being felt in the “enlightened” Western part of the continent. Which is why people increasingly no longer want to go visit, which is not something I am saying, but Eurostat data is:

            http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/7822893/4-24012017-AP-EN.pdf/922150f7-b642-418d-ab42-9867347d5439

            Of note, the drop in non-resident tourist nights spent in France, of almost 9%, in contrast to an increase between 5-20% in former communist countries. I guess people want to be safe? Everywhere I go in North America, people are increasingly voicing their dislike of the very idea of visiting Western Europe, due to the glorious changes taking place, thanks to your beloved ideology and its effects it has been having in past decades.

          • ViktorZorroban

            CeausescuLover is right! This is not about cheap flights, hotels or booze; the reason why all these Western Liberals are flooding Budapest is because they wanna feel safe when they travel in the M3 – especially now it has double-door opening.

          • FUCeausescu

            No, no, you are right! The dream of every tourist is to have their wives and daughters molested, or to be run over by a truck, or blown up and so on. Since the current President of France declared during his campaign that there is no such thing as a distinct French culture, the joke around here in Canada is that if one does want to experience French culture, we should from now on go to Quebec City. Certainly not worth spending all that money to go to France in order to experience nothing in particular, aside from perhaps some adrenaline, as yet another terror alert is issued, while one is trying to look past a burqa in order to take a long-distance peak at the tower.

          • ViktorZorroban

            CeausescuLover, you are right once again! As long as there will be Fat Fidesznik Midgets to protect us, we’ll be in safe hands. And the outlook is good; after they implanted an extra GeciGen, our Glorious Leader will be able run the country until 2076.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/617f7099fa9dee72f15f2fa0d8de18839c12ac1f4275d7e4b4c8f93eac3703c4.jpg

          • FUCeausescu

            Well Mr funny man, how many terrorist attacks in the former communist countries since they entered the EU? In the past few years, the toll in Western Europe has been in the hundreds every year. Were women in Szeged or Eger mass-molested by gangs of marauding men lately? So yes, it does indeed seem that Orban had it right on this one as well. All the cheap sleazy humor you can throw at it will not change the facts.

          • ViktorZorroban

            Moslims are not allowed to attack Hungarians.
            Quran
            (2:191-193)
            – “And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where
            they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or
            unrest] is worse than
            killing… but if they desist, then do!
            Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no
            more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah]
            and worship is for Allah alone. But let there be
            no transgression against Fat Midgets, as their miserable lives are already enough suffering.

          • wolfi

            Our little FUC*er is funny in a way – whatever the topic about Hungary, the creature automatically returns to play the totally unconnected Muslim story – like a broken record record record …

            Maybe a Muslim once took its job – or even its girlfriend and the cretin can’t get over it over it over it over it …

          • Havelaar

            Love it!

          • “how many terrorist attacks in the former communist countries since they entered the EU?”

            …because ‘White Hungarians’ bombing and killing Hungarian Police Officers is not ‘terrorism’, just ‘freedom fights’

          • “The dream of every tourist is to have their wives and daughters molested”

            You surely have a twisted mind, but we excuse you for being Canadian, then what else should we expect from you ultra-liberals?

          • Vidra

            You prove my point. You try to justify your primitive emotions by saying “look, they’re like that too!”.

          • FUCeausescu

            No, you are proving my point. Liberalism is a self-loathing, masochistic cult.

          • Vidra

            It’s well aware that without liberalism there would have been no nazionalism, because the masses would have done as they were bloody well told and would have been forced to accept whoever ruled them in the language chosen by that ruler. And, of couse liberalism means TOLERATING people like you.

          • “Liberalism is a self-loathing, masochistic cult”

            Nope.
            Any proof for your claim?

          • Havelaar

            Any proof for your claim? ” a self-loathing, masochistic cult”
            Well liberals like you are, not liberals like me.

          • “Of note, the drop in non-resident tourist nights spent in France”

            How do you suggest we should interpret the slump in travels to the US after Drumpf was elected POTUS?

          • ViktorZorroban

            This is because Trump snubbed our Glorious Leader by inviting a Romanian schmuck first, so 115% of the Illiberals don’t wanna go there anymore. Source: Orbanistats

          • Havelaar

            I am a liberal who supports to kick out each and every so called moderate muslim which does not respect Gay rights, Christian rights, Jewish rights, and above all ex-Muslims which do not belong to islam anymore and are threatened to be killed, out of our countries. Belgium, France, Germany, the Netherlands etc.

            If this is not legally possible, it is always possible to delete their financial subsidies.

            Sowwy, give me a political correct answer?

          • “I am a liberal who supports to kick out each and every so called moderate muslim”

            You are obviously not a liberal, then being a liberal is to defend the rights of the deplorable to be just deplorable, even if you do not agree with their opinion, regardless if they are jewish, muslims, christians or even atheists.
            Or you are for a theocratic rule?

          • Havelaar

            You don’t think it is high time for liberals to defend their liberal values…hmmm?

            You don’t think it is deeply revealing that approximately only 300-500 islamic demonstrators showed up to protest against Islamic violence. It was supposed to be a big thing.

            More than half of them were non – Muslim Germans.

            An average Turkish wedding has more visitors.

            https://www.welt.de/debatte/kommentare/article165647231/Der-Aufstand-der-anstaendigen-Muslime-bleibt-aus.html

            Der Aufstand der anständigen Muslime bleibt aus.

            But this does not bother you, does it now?

          • “You don’t think it is high time for liberals to defend their liberal values”

            …by disallowing other people who do not share your ‘liberal values’…smart!
            You treat liberalism like it should be like Theocracy, which is as illiberal one can be.

            Can you mention a demo anywhere in the world where the majority of people went out against violence in general or “Islamic violence” in particular?
            How should we interpret that – people in general, world-wide, loves violence?

          • “You don’t think it is deeply revealing that approximately only 300-500 islamic demonstrators showed up to protest against Islamic violence”

            Let’s count the “Clean-shaven white men” that shows up for the demo to protest this obvious terrorist-attack:
            https://twitter.com/benphillips76/status/876674478763331585

        • Havelaar

          I don’t like you, I am disgusted by the Fidesz corruption. That being said, I have to admit that during our last stay in Budapest a week ago we felt safe and secure. No muslim hostile gazes, no spitting on the ground before us, which happens all the time, on a daily basis, in our tiny Dutch town or Hannover Germany for example which we visit a lot. None of those Islamic idiot gangs walking the streets with a purpose to intimidate, at all.

          So I vote you up. with a big but…..
          Just to be fair.

          • “during our last stay in Budapest a week ago we felt safe and secure. No muslim hostile gazes”

            You were obviously not looked on by the the local Roma…or you avoided 8th district?

          • Havelaar

            No Roma ever insulted me or my wife. And we did meet a lot.

            What is this BS? You do not like Roma?

          • “You do not like Roma?”

            Maybe I like them as you like ‘Muslims’?
            So why should I be wrong and you right in disliking people in general?

          • Havelaar

            I dislike Islam, in general.

          • If you would apply the same criteria you have for disliking Islam, which religion would you then actually like?

            You obviously still have to meet any of the 5,579 Muslims in Hungary (2011 census), made up 0.056% of the total population. Of these, 4,097 (73.4%) declared themselves as Hungarian, while 2,369 (42.5%) as Arab by ethnicity.
            Just so you can get insulted, of course.

          • Havelaar

            “which religion would you then actually like?”
            None of them, but Christians, Bhuddists etc. are not attacking our societies. Muslims do. Also so called moderate Muslims.

          • “Christians, Bhuddists etc. are not attacking our societies. Muslims do”

            There you are of course wrong. In the European scene we can count away Buddhism, but ask the Rohingyas, Indo-Aryan people, how it feels.

            Christians are very much in control of today’s Europe, but just look on Hungary under Fidesz to see how Christians are attacking and transforming a rather liberal society that was Hungary before 2010. In certain senses more liberal than countries like Sweden and Norway, in other senses not.

            In what sense would you say people in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Albania, Kosovo, parts of Bulgaria, Macedonia and Montenegro, which are the most Muslim-dominated areas outside Turkey in Europe, live different than the average EU-citizen?

          • Havelaar

            I simply do not understand you,

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayaan_Hirsi_Ali

            Ayaan made it very clear, that she was not so much worried about extremists Islamic idiots, but shocked and scared by the support of those extremists threats coming from so called moderate Muslims and so called liberals like you. I know you did not make any threat.

            24 hours a day, for the rest of her life she will have to be protected, and people like you apparently do not have any problem with this.

            Do you?

            Then tell us.

            Me thinks you are not like a certain guy called Roderick Beck over here who is unable to stand up for her rights to express herself without being killed.

          • “Ayaan made it very clear, that she was not so much worried about extremists Islamic idiots, but shocked and scared by the support of those extremists threats coming from so called moderate Muslims and so called liberals like you”

            I do not know Ayaan, and she definitely does not know me, so she cannot have an opinion of me.

            I do not support any threats or violence against anybody, regardless religion or no religion. I do though not have any special ‘Islam-rules’, positive or negative.

            From your source I found this quote interesting, then as I have spent weeks on, by Israel occupied areas, in the 80s visiting real Palestinians, most of them most likely dead or in prison by now, I value the input of Palestinians:
            “According to Rula Jebreal, a Palestinian journalist and foreign policy analyst, Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s criticism applies mostly to “Wahhabism”, the strain of Islam most familiar to Hirsi Ali, and not to Islam as a whole. Jebreal added that Ali’s “outbursts” are originated from her own pains, “physical scars inflicted on her body during childhood,” which were justified by a radical version of the religion into which she was born. Jebreal wrote: ” To endorse Hirsi Ali so unabashedly is to insult and mock a billion Muslims”. “It’s time to listen to what is being said by the Muslim voices of peace and tolerance. Ayaan Hirsi Ali is not one of them,” she added.”
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayaan_Hirsi_Ali#Reception
            Just to put the record straight – the Palestinians I met, were mostly either Atheist or Christians. Hardly any Muslims at all, but regardless that, they are subjected to the same racism from the IDF and the Jewish State of Israel.

            To do what you do seems to go against what Ayaan now seems to think (your source):
            “In her latest book Heretic (2015) she moderated her views of Islam and now calls for a reform of the religion by supporting reformist Muslims”
            You paint all Muslims with one brush, refusing to see the huge differences between them, or you see the Pope as an Ambassador for the Lord’s Resistance Army also?

          • Havelaar

            “You paint all Muslims with one brush”, not me but Ayaan did, and I agree.

          • “Yep. so called moderate muslims. They do not exist.
            Muslims do not integrate. They want to dominate”

            Every religion inherent wants dominance and spread, that is why it is a religion and not a sect.

            Then there are cultural differences that sometimes are masked as religious. Seems like your experience is rather local and not global. I never had a problem being greeted by Muslims in the places I have been in, except in a Palestinian villages, where the 3-year old children threw stones at us, then they thought we were Jews. After some yelling from our Palestinian driver we ere invited to a meal with that family. It is all about perception.

            Not sure which moderate Muslims you are missing, but clearly the US-supported House of Saud is actively spreading their hatred and extreme religious views actively in Europe now, but they do have the active support of POTUS for that. This is something the EU need to handle, but it has nothing to do with throwing out ‘Muslims’ or banning ‘Islam’.
            It is your choice if you want to treat these German Muslims as ‘moderates’ or as ‘extremists’ or just ‘plain Muslims:
            “BURQAS BANNED AND LGBT MUSLIMS WELCOME AT GERMANY’S FIRST ‘LIBERAL’ MOSQUE”
            http://www.newsweek.com/germany-mosque-liberal-islam-berlin-626957

            Personally I think it is wrong that the State prescribes women as priests or whatever. Any Church/Congregation/Religion should be able to do what they want, as long as legal from the point of view of safety/security/similar, but not from a point of view of liking/disliking.
            Meaning if some people in Holland wants to adhere to a religion that makes not saying Hello to anybody outside their religion, it is OK. I may be annoyed, but it is still their right to refuse to say Hello, if they do not want.
            If they want to successfully integrate their refusal to say Hello will be removed later, by either losing members from this group or ‘modernizing’ themselves.

            Personally I think a much bigger problem, than some Muslims do not want to say Hello to non-Muslims, is that in very Christian Northern Ireland, raped girls cannot get an abortion and last week a UK High Court denied these girls NHS (= free from payment) treatment anywhere else in the UK.
            This is till the EU, similar to the very Christian Poland.
            But of course as we all know that these ‘rape-victims’ really are sinners, we do not care and concentrate on Muslims.

          • olga

            Good God – is that really you Paul? If you don’t watch it, the Slug will no longer be your friend 🙂

            I did not know that Ayaan generalized about Muslim men – her Dad is Muslim and from the little I know about her, she got her strength because of his support and encouragement – can you reference verbatim what she said exactly?

            I haven’t got around to reading her book but I did read a book maybe 20 years ago by a Toronto journalist and Lesbian , Irshad Manji “The Trouble with Islam” – she said in her country , she and her partner would be buried with only their head showing and then stoned to death .

            Knowing what I know about you, I actually understand your postings although I don’t agree with some of the things you wrote and find it hard to believe that no legal action is taken against some of the behaviour you describe in Holland

            BTW, I saw you post a pic of your wife – I hope you asked her permission to do that

          • Havelaar

            Hi Olga. Yes it is me Paul, we live and learn, mainstream Dutch are waking up.

            http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2017/05/no-change-to-headscarf-ban-dutch-police-chief-says/

            Last weekend an Amsterdam police officer caused a social media storm when she went on patrol wearing a headscarf under her cap.

          • olga

            This is not my original idea but I think the only solution to change the violent Islamic mindset rests with hopefully millions of those Muslims whose mindset is like the Mr.Khans of this world. – plural.

            The London Mayor and the American Dad whose son died fighting for the USA while his wife and the soldier’s Mother was insulted by that raving lunatic aka POTUS

            OT – you are aware that Calgary has a gay Muslim Mayor – right?

            I have not changed since my politics.hu days but you have. I still won’t support Orban nor will I dump on him, because I am not a resident of Hungary

            Just a thpought – you keep calling Orban Mafia, crook etc etc but you must share his opinion on Muslim immigrants – I will never understand the Hungarian psyche and fooled myself thinking I could. Having said that, maybe Hungarians are willing to overlook his liabilities provided he keeps immigrants out? – not really sure, it just occured to me after reading your positngs on this thread.

          • Havelaar

            “but you must share his opinion on Muslim immigrants” Yes, I do even though I think he is deeply corrupt.

          • olga

            If your wife’s relatives living in Hungary hate Orban as much as you do but support the FIDESZ agenda re Muslim immigration, I wonder who they vote for.

            Gert Wilders lost so I gather not all the people in Holland feel the way you do – I am actually not being critical of your views, nor do I support it – same as my “no opinion” re FIDESZ. I don’t live in Hungary, nor in Holland

            Having said that, there were way too many anti-Hungarian jerks on this site when I was a “regular” using Orban as an excuse to show their venom. Viking who makes Bernie look Right Wing and George were not in that crowd

            I am really surpised about your attitude – must do some research on Ayaan, I only know her name and that she is an American activist from Somalia I think – I am more interested in her “solution” than her opinions.

          • CG Walkman

            How can you not have an opinion on Fidesz? You have aware of their policies, been to Hungary several times, and have been on this site for years. It is not the same as having no opinion on Holland. Not commenting critically on inconvenient Hungarian negatives is very much a part of the Hungarian psyche, so maybe you understand it more than you realize.

          • olga

            The people I met in Hungary actually voted for FIDESZ but were less than enthusiastic with comments like “he is the best of the lot” – this site never sang the praises of any particular alternative politician, it was simply all about how horrible Orban was.

            90% of the people on this site were and I assume still are of the opinion that Orban is the devil incarnate but some (not all) never missed an opportunity to insult Hungarian people in general and if I had to pick 2 examples, it would be the revolting crude German and V.Z. So those people’s opinions I negated and wondered why they got away with all the venom – Then I realised as long as you hated FIDESZ, there were no restrictions on how offensive the postings were.

            When the Orange Ape won the election, we decided never to enter the USA during his “reign” – then came freezing weather in February and we had an ivitation to Florida so we decided the hell with the Ape , we had enough of the cold.

            Many times I was challanged by Ape supporting Americans what I thought of the pathological liar and psychopath , and each time I walked away saying “as long as I am in your country, I have no intrest in criticizing who you elect”

            I understand the Ape much better than I understand Orban so please don’t interpret this as equating the two – I simply won’t criticize who people elect in a country I don’t live in but choose to visit.

            Even now, away from the USA , I would not go on an American website and express my opinion on POTUS – luckily I don’t know one single Canadian in my circle of friends who support the Ape, ( one used to but she seems silent these days). so I have plenty of opportunities to vent including here 🙂

            Oh, I did find it offensive that the migrants were not treated better in Hungary while they were in transition – as long as these people were on Hungarian soil, I felt the government had an obligation to look after their basic needs and they didn’t. I hate to use the Ape term “sad” but that’s exactly what I thought

          • CG Walkman

            I am not asking you about the reasons (or excuses) on how people vote or who the alternatives are.
            I am seeking your own opinions of Fidesz and their policies. As a Hungarian who is eligible to vote, you’ve spent enough time hearing about their policies from all sides, and you should be able to have your opinion without deflecting that you don’t live here.
            How can you understand Drumpf? No one does. He lives on Pluto while his brain is in Jupiter.

          • olga

            FIDESZ policies?? Tell me What the party stands for and the actual plaform

            For exapmple : The GOP does not believe in universal Health care, they want to cut social spending, and give tax breaks to the wealthiest 1 %, deny women the right to choose etc etc

            I know of one policy. – FIDESZ is against a “woman’s right to choose” and into “Family Values” but unlike in the USA, I heard it was just all talk.

            On the subject of the Ape – if you get a chance, read the Editor’s Letter ” A farce to be Reckoned with ” on the summer issue of “Vamity Fair” with Carrie Fischer on the cover.

            I couldn’t stop laughing at the least 20 adjectives describing POTUS –

            I am now on Bp time and my husband is yelling at me to get going 🙂

          • CG Walkman

            I am not Hungarian. I’m not interested in deciphering what Fidesz stands for, or believing any Drumpf like BS to decide whether I want to vote for them.
            Fidesz policies have been in place for 7 years, and you can examine them, their words and their actions to form your own opinion.

            You are on Bp time, and your husband is yelling at you? I didn’t realize he was a Fidesz guy, let alone Hungarian. Oh shit – Don’t tell me you are married to Pali?

          • olga

            I woulld need to know what a party stands for just like I know what Liberals, Conservatives and the NDP stand for in Canada – right now I know the Trudeau policies and how many are kept and how many are not.

            I would like to know what Orban promised the electorate when he was elected twice and if his “score card” on those promises but those issues are never mentioned.

            We hear about the Ape’s report card every day – the most blatant lies are “draining the swamp” and the promise of “transparency”

            You know darn well my husband is not Hungarian and thus just like you, he knows his DNA is inferior to us Magyars. Just like you, he is in denial but unlike you, he doesn’t know what FIDESZ is. 🙂

            Do you remember the clip that in the American TV stations was shown 24/7 for a few days where the Ape pushed the Montenegro PM aside ? Anyway, Orban was standing right behind the Ape so I asked my husband if he knew who that was. He did not.
            At least he agrees that Budapest is THE most beautiful city in the world so he does have redeeming qualities….

          • CG Walkman

            Fidesz, like Drumpf, doesn’t stand for anything. If you’re pushing for a platform, then VZ has expressed it best. Drumpf has a report card because there is a free press who understand their role (kinda). Orban says similar things to what Drumpf said with the gold star family. What kind of score card would you put to that? Orban promised vengeance on MSZP, and he delivered, extending that similar vengeance to anyone who disagrees with him. I doubt he made any kind of promise to enrich himself. So is this part of the score card you want to see. Don’t kid yourself. There is enough written on Orban’s policies and how his government is run. You only need to look at them, and decide whether this is moral and correct.

            I was just kidding about Mr Olga being Hungarian. We remember him from the picture you sent when you were in Florida. If that was your husband, then he has more in common with Orban, regardless of whether or not he knows what Fidesz is.

          • olga

            I had to think of the picture , then I remembered. Yes, that was my husband – I kissed him, but he didn’t turn into a Prince like he was supposed to 🙂

          • Yes, and here is another group of Muslims who are not moderate enough for you – helping Christians to escape Daesh…
            https://twitter.com/ThielsChristian/status/876428758420467712

          • “and I agree”

            Yes, another of you ‘clean-shaved white men’ – you are all terrorists, attacking our European society…
            https://twitter.com/imraansiddiqi/status/876678865048883201

          • Havelaar

            “Yes, another of you(R) ‘clean-shaved white men'” Are you drunk?

          • Of course you do – Is this not a ‘Revenge Attack’?
            But most important – “clean-shaved white men” are all terrorists, as all ‘muslims’ are terrorists, then one doing bad – all doing bad.
            It is your and his logic.
            Kristallnacht-syndrome

          • Havelaar

            Okay, you are drunk.

          • You are not different from ‘Leto’, you may differ on gays, but in the end you share the same hatred against everything that is not how you want it.

            Given your bigotry, you will never find the way to fix your problems in your local city. You can chose to suppress criminal gangs with more Police, or you can also add a social dimension to it. Whatever it must be done together with the society, not from outside.

            Go to Eastern Hungary in small Roma-dominated villages and they will be very nice with any gays they can find. That is a fact, so maybe you should start some ranting about that also, together with ‘leto’ of course.

            Sometimes you qualify your arguments, like “any toxic Islamic influence”, whatever that is, next post it is just ‘Muslims’, which includes 20 million EU-citizens.

            Also you are Dutch – are not most of this ‘toxic Islamic influence’ coming from old Dutch colonies?

          • Havelaar

            You are not different from ‘Leto’, come on, are you so stupid? So disappointing.

          • pantanifan

            I agree with your view that extreme radical Islam-inspired terrorism presents a major threat to what we have always considered liberal democracies. However, I don’t share your view that “I dislike Islam, in general”. Moderate Muslems are not responsible for the acts of idiots within the community, in fact they are just as likely to be victims as anyone else…

            Many Muslems were born and bred in Western Europe and are citizens of that country, so the only option is some kind of integration and trying to “weed out” the extremists

          • Havelaar

            Something which Viking will never comment on.

            http://www.foxnews.com/story/2004/11/17/belgian-pol-islam-critic-goes-into-hiding.amp.html

            A Belgian senator of Moroccan origin, known for her criticism of conservative traits within immigrant Muslim communities, has gone into hiding after receiving death threats, officials said Wednesday.
            I hope you do.

          • pantanifan

            If the story is true as printed (I’m not a big fan of fox news) then it’s a terrible situation, reminiscent of the “Fatwa” on writer Salman Rushdie many years ago. They should try and urgently investigate who is making the death threats if possible

            Re.: “I dislike Islam, in general”: what do you think should be done to improve the situation, given that many Muslems were born and brought up in Europe?

          • “Something which Viking will never comment on.”

            Checking that story, it is strange that nothing essential pops-up on a English-language web-search for her name, more than this story is from 2004 and in 2007 she left her old party and went to LDD a “conservative-liberal, libertarian, and right-wing populist Flemish political party in Belgium”, which never had any real influence.
            Point is that she could obviously continue her life without any noise, except on article in Fox News 13 years ago.
            Should say something, but hard to comment on an one-off story.

            Personally I have the same feelings for Islam, as I have for Christianity or any other religion. For some people, in some times historically and in some places in the world, there are good religious persons working for a common good in their area, but mostly religion creates more problems than what is solves, then it is inherent that religious persons concentrate on WHO is the most/best religious person/follower, instead of working together to better this world in the name of their God, whatever name.

          • CG Walkman

            You should go to Indonesia and learn how the 220m Muslims observe their faith. As Viking said, too many of these problems are caused by the Saudis promoting and funding their version of Islam, wahhabism, and too many idiots swallowing this BS. Similar to the Trumpanzees in the US swallowing and regurgitating his BS.
            Bro, you seem lost.

          • Havelaar

            You should go to Indonesia and learn how the 220m Muslims observe their faith.

            http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/caning-for-gay-men-in-indonesia-for-sharia-law-crime-of-being-gay/news-story/88d658538943e341aa2ae6c35e441023

            Caning for gay men in Indonesia for Sharia law ‘crime’ of being gay

          • Havelaar
          • “Caning for gay men in Indonesia for Sharia law ‘crime’ of being gay”

            In the Aceh-province they do not discriminate, they have no problems caning anyone, here is a picture female caners caning another woman, who obviously violated something.
            Caning is an ancient method of punishment that we normally do not use anymore. Waterboarding is such a more human method.
            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1eeaeeecdf2acbfd35ad8526c94dae2c91b07080d2142b227ab55081dc17e55d.jpg

          • CG Walkman

            Only in Aceh province which is a very small part of one of the 17000 islands in Indonesia. The rest of Indonesia doesn’t have Sharia.

          • Havelaar

            The Indonesian President Joko Widodo could have stopped these barbaric attacks any time he wished. Buuut he did not. And now he is an icon of muslim tolerance according to you? He is a perfect example of hypocritical muslim collaboration like you and Viking.

          • CG Walkman

            He can do many things any time he wishes, but as a president, he has probably has other priorities which don’t align exactly with yours. Interfering in Aceh’s limited autonomy is not high on his priority list, but I am quite sure, he would come down hard on any attempt to extend sharia in any other part of Indonesia.

            So, now I am a hypocritical Muslim collaborator like Viking? Thanks, bro.

          • Havelaar

            Oh sh********t, it is you George? So sorry, I feel awful, never wanted to “attack” YOU. So slow of me.

          • CG Walkman

            No worries, bro. Yes it is me. I changed my handle some months ago. You seem to have changed quite a bit. Any particular reason?

          • Havelaar

            Hi George,

            I had an Indonesian friend too. He died one month ago, bone cancer. And yes, I cried. He was a real friend from the age of twelve years old. Mutual.

            Why am I telling you this? Well there are real friends and internet friends. We both know the difference. That being said I always considered you as some sort of real friend. I do respect your opinions very much. However, I need to protect my wife and daughter. In the tiny town where I am living things go very wrong/ My daughter is handicapped and autistic-al and she is insulted and harassed on a daily basis. Also because she is pretty. Harassed by Muslim idiots patrolling the streets in a groups of six and more.

            There should be far less tolerance from our society towards this disgusting, so called moderate Muslim behaviour as far as I am concerned. Maybe you can show some support and empathy concerning what I am telling you?

            This might be Viking’s ideal concept of a real liberal society. But, this is not according to me. I will not get any support over here by politically correct people of course, but who cares?

            Brother!

          • CG Walkman

            Bro, I just got back from Serbia, and I’m really tired. Will answer you tomorrow, alright. Take care.

          • “Harassed by Muslim idiots patrolling the streets in a groups of six and more.”

            So these guys belong to some local ‘neighbourhood watch’?
            Can you link to some English-speaking site that discuss their existence and how that can be allowed in Holland?

          • CG Walkman

            Sorry to hear about your friend, bro. My father passed away from bone cancer when I was 18, and I know how painful it is.
            I agree you need to protect your family, and I feel for your daughter. Like Viking, I am surprised that the police allow such things to happen in Holland. You need to re-examine why aren’t they involved more, and maybe seek legal advice, or get your local/national politicians more involved. I would not consider anyone who is part of a “roving gang” like this a moderate Muslim. Such gangs would have been arrested very quickly back home. I agree that such behavior should not be tolerated in society, regardless of the religion of the perpetrator.
            I like Viking’s concept of a extreme liberal society, but I often disagree with him on how to enforce the boundaries. I think his concept is only possible with very responsible and socially aware people.

          • olga

            That is really sad about your daughter being harassed but why is it tolerated and why are these people not charged?

            I am surprised that you have these problems in a small town because our small towns seem to have almost no immigrants except for hard working Korean, Chinese, Vietnamese etc families who run convenience and dollar stores

            If they happen to be Christians, it is a bonus for the local churches because church attendance non immigrants are declining at a fast rate even in small towns.

          • CG Walkman

            ps, Bro – forgot to add that if you ask authorities or politicians to act against “moderate” muslims, they will think you are an extremist, and they will probably ignore you, even if they promise to look into it.
            Your main intention is to make sure they don’t harass your daughter. Hence, you need to make sure they address the gang directly & immediately, and not get sidetracked by other things you are unhappy with.

          • CG Walkman

            This guy,Tarek Fatah, seems to be the type of Muslim who is trying his part to make his fellow muslims see some light? Why do you say there are no moderate muslims? In another article he wrote of an event in Toronto
            “Unaware of each other’s events, Armenians and the minuscule Kashmiri Pandits met separately, one on Sunday, the latter on Friday night.
            Both groups have suffered immensely at the hands of my co-religionists, many of whom show no collective recognition, let alone remorse, for the crimes committed in the name of the supremacist Islamist doctrine of world domination.
            At both events, I met fellow Muslims who see the truth and risk their lives to express solidarity with the victims of crimes committed in the name of Allah and Islam.

            https://tinyurl.com/y6wdtuc5
            There are many like him all over the world. Do not expect them to be able to single handedly change opinions. Islam is an old religion, and followers have been taught/brainwashed not to question the religion. It doesn’t mean many don’t think about how to do it. I do believe it is happening in my country. Some are becoming more religious since 9/11 and Iraq etc, but more are adopting a progressive attitude. One thing almost everyone agrees is that Saudi type Wahhabism have no place in our society, and Muslims back home are already are examining what aspects of their religion are unsuited to be applied in a modern world, and discussing that in religious circles.

          • Havelaar

            I am not lost Bro, but you are sleepwalking.

            Richard Dawkins: Islam Is ‘The Most Evil Religion In The World’

            http://www.dailywire.com/news/17453/richard-dawkins-islam-most-evil-religion-world-michael-qazvini

            Nevertheless, it’s his critiques of Islam that have attracted the attention of the Islalmophobia industry, with “tolerant” progressives and professional Muslim grievance mongers labeling him as a “bigot.”

            The problem, of course, is that Dawkins is as liberal as they come; contrary to his detractors characterizations, his denouncements are far from “racist.” In fact, Dawkins makes a point of separating race from religion, arguing that all ideas, all beliefs should be debated in an open and honest public forum.

            “It’s terribly important to modify [Islam] because of course that doesn’t mean all Muslims are evil, very far from it. Individual Muslims suffer more from Islam than anyone else,” Dawkins noted during his speech. “They suffer from the homophobia, the misogyny, the joylessness which is preached by extreme Islam, ISIS and the Iranian regime.”

          • CG Walkman

            Bro, you don’t know me. How can I be sleepwalking, when I grew up in a country where there are many more Muslims than you have in the Netherlands, and I have many more Muslim friends than you do? I have also lived in an Islamic country before coming here.

            I am familiar with Dawkins. I never said all religions were equal, and I have said many times I would prefer if there was no Islam in today’s world, but it isn’t going to disappear because you want it to. While you might like to go headlong into a war with Islam and Muslims (& maybe even Viking), I agree with Dawkins that is is high-time and important to modify Islam Unlike you, I think the best people to do it are the moderates themselves in an organized and strategic way to weed out, sideline and ultimately re-educate the radicals without getting into intra-religious war.

          • wolfi

            Yes, CG – and I just quoted myself from HS on the racist politics of the USA Christians where 50 years ago in many states marriages (or sex generally) between different races was forbidden and got you into prison, just like homosexual activities.
            Search for “Loving” on wiki – that was the name of the family (funnily enough) and they just made another movie out of it.

            So there’s a fifty years difference between “Christians” and Muslims maybe – just like the fifty years difference between developed democracies and Hungary …

          • CG Walkman

            Thanks for reminding me. I wanted to watch this movie when I first heard about it but I forgot the name.

          • olga

            We are in Europe, but far away from Hungary and thought I’d check out politics.hu

            First, Is that really Paul ???? How things have changed….

            I actually agree with him more than I agree with you – most likely 99% + of Muslims are peace loving but they don’t shout from the rooftops nor do they hold mass demonsttrations against violence committed by terrorists

            Since that horrible fire in London, Sky News and BBC are showing mass demonstrations by ourtraged London residents on a daily basis against the owners of the building who were negligent and ignored safety regulations.

            I did not see mass demonstrations by the peaceful Muslims led by their religious leaders against the Manchester and London terrorist incidents – why not?

            The orange Idiot in the USA is rightfully blamed for pissing off moderate Muslims who are often the eyes for “suspicious activities” I would like to see those mass demonstrations in Canada, the USA and in Europe speaking out against the tiny percentage of radical Islam – it would sure go a long way

            BTW, there are a lot of Muslim males in Toronto but I am not aware of males Muslim , non-Muslim or even Swedish males insulting women or spitting on the streets but if such incidents occur, no doubt they would be arrested

          • “I did not see mass demonstrations by the peaceful Muslims led by their religious leaders against the Manchester and London terrorist incidents – why not?”

            Over 130 Imams & Religious Leaders from diverse backgrounds refuse to perform the funeral prayer for London attackers in an unprecedented move
            5 June 2017

            Imams and religious leaders from across the country and a range of schools of thought have come together to issue a public statement condemning the recent terror attack in London and conveying their pain at the suffering of the victims and their families.

            In an unprecedented move, they have not only refused to perform the traditional Islamic prayer for the terrorist – a ritual that is normally performed for every Muslim regardless of their actions – but also have called on others to do the same. They said:

            “Consequently, and in light of other such ethical principles which are quintessential to Islam, we will not perform the traditional Islamic funeral prayer over the perpetrators and we also urge fellow imams and religious authorities to withdraw such a privilege. This is because such indefensible actions are completely at odds with the lofty teachings of Islam.”
            http://www.mcb.org.uk/over-130-imams-religious-leaders-from-diverse-backgrounds-refuse-to-perform-the-funeral-prayer-for-london-attackers-in-an-unprecedented-move/

            The demos about the fire is also fueled by the outcome of the recent election and that it happened in Kensington, one of the richest Burroughs in England.
            It is more a class-struggle and many of those participating would participate whatever the issue. The anti-May/pro-Corbyn movements have a hay-day now, but to the question of the obviously ignored fire safety, they are probably totally right.

            And I do not see any British Christians demonstrating for the right of Northern Ireland raped girls to have a free abortion in Britain, when denied such right in Northern Ireland (part of the UK and the EU).
            But that really mean all Brits support this refusal of abortion?

          • olga

            There are a lot of inequalities and unfair practices that do not result in mass demonstrations but you are staring to sound like the Orange Ape whining about the Clintons’ various imagined transgressions instead of sticking to the subject

            Point is, that Muslim terrorism is the subject – young men are radicalized to wrongly blieve that killing people in the name of Islam will get them some after life reward – I know from reading the news that the terrorists in the UK were refused Muslim funerals but I would like to see those mass demonstrations on TV and Muslim clerics shouting from the rooftops that Islam is not a violent religion and killing innocent people is a mortal sin.

            Class stuggle, Corbyn, May etc were not my points either – it was simply an example that mass demonstrations and extensive TV coverage educating the masses (like me) makes the demonstrators’ views and grievences known. I think it would go a long way to see law abiding Muslim males preferable aged 16- 65 along with Muslim Clerics shout their condemnation of violence and senseless killings. I don’t think there would be plenty of Muslim women joining them

            You can point to white clean shaven lunatics all you want, there is no shortage of them since Timothy McVey and other gun toting Americans, but the reality is that terrorst attacks are perpratated by disenfrenchised young Muslim males and converts to Islam

            Other than being disagreeable, – what do you think should be baby steps to engage these young home-grown radicalised youth to adapt to Western culture while keeping their Muslim faith?

          • The problem is the ‘radicalisation’, may it be religious or political. In that sense there is no difference between the last terrorist-attacks in London, last night or a couple of weeks ago.
            Just because you are a white liberal you have no right to concentrate on one side, the side you dislike, then you are supporting the other side. The situation in the UK has been very hateful for some years from the same media that supported Brexit.
            I think the situation in Netherlands is the same and Havelar do the same thing here.
            https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/876703780124983296

          • olga

            You did not answer my question 🙂
            OMG – just heard what happened in London – huge outrage by Non- Muslims like there should be

          • “huge outrage by Non- Muslims like there should be”

            I do not see any ‘clean-shaven white men’, like ‘Havelar’, demonstrating on the streets of London…you know it is alleged perps that should do the demo, not the victims.

            “what do you think should be baby steps to engage these young home-grown radicalised youth to adapt to Western culture while keeping their Muslim faith?”
            1st) I do not think they are Muslims, they may have visited some Mosques, like I have visited Churches in my life, but hardly any of them are really practicing. They can still use ‘Muslim identity’, but more as a social/culture brand.

            2nd) They are more or less always known by the Local Police as petty criminals, involved in drugs, etc, but not really as security problems, until rather late in the timeline, so radicalization happens rather fast and probably outside of the local community, which makes it very hard to discover.

            3rd) They differ from the last 50 years terrorists in Europe, then they are not really middle class youth, they are on the fringe of society, asocial behaviour and outcasts, without any real future (inside society according to themselves). This is a big difference from before.

            4th) More or less everybody is 2nd generation, which is a sign that integration has not worked for these families. The Father is either very dominant or missing totally, in both cases failed to integrate as first generation immigrant. This is important, then it shows the importance to work to avoid ghettos, social outcasts, etc.
            The only way of doing this is to support and build bridges to the Mothers, then they are normally the smartest in their families looking to what is practically achievable.
            Also in Arabic tradition it is the Mother who is really responsible for the children, tasked with their education, etc. The problem is to reach them, then normally we speak about a rather Patriarchal culture.

            5) So in the end, it is the normal social work, regardless if religion is really involved, or not – build contact with the local community, including their organisations, may that be project associations, sport-clubs and religious organisations.
            Is it easy?
            Nope, it is very hard and will take many years, demand much money and a Police organisation that is Local, walk among the Locals, not coming in 3 times per week in full gear to arrest somebody.
            The problem with the Police is that the Locals, the criminals excluded, wants the Police there, as Local Police, that knows them and helps them. If no Local Police, the criminals take over and sometimes their terror will leak out and disturb the majority.

            So the trick is to make them do it.
            We cannot do it.
            We can just enable a few to lead the others.
            If Zlatan would not had the possibility to play football and be discovered, he would probably been a very good gangsta.

          • Havelaar

            “Havelar do the same thing here.”

            So angry you can not write in English anymore?

          • “you can not write in English anymore?”

            You do not know that “Havelar” is the plural form of ‘Havelaar’…ask any ‘muslim’

          • pantanifan

            “Point is, that Muslim terrorism is the subject”

            Actually it isn’t. The subject is whether or not “The whole opposition sided with corruption by voting against our bill” on banning political billboards, as claimed by Fidesz parliamentary group leader Kósa Lajos 🙂

          • olga

            You are right of course – I should have written : “although the topic was not about Muslim terrorism, now that we digressed. ….. ”

            You are one of the people whose opinions I miss reading – Viking and George I can argue with through emails. 🙂

          • pantanifan

            “You are one of the people whose opinions I miss reading – Viking and George I can argue with through emails. :)”

            My opinions are available free of charge on politics.hu most working days! If you’re really kiváncsi about my views, just think Viking-light, without his enthusiasm for ever-increasing EU integration and with a bit more desire for nation states to keep their identity 🙂

          • pantanifan

            p.s. I am also a member of the Twitterati, though I don’t post much there: @marcopantanifan

          • olga

            I don’t have a twitter account but if I ever do, I will make sure I follow you 🙂 “does “your name” have a meaning?

            olga is my great-grandmother’s name and it’s my 4th Christian name on my Baptismal certificate. Being an only child, I guess my Mom had to get everyone’s name in at the same time…

            I never knew you were Hungarian but I gather you are since you sent me an article in Hungarian.

          • ” most likely 99% + of Muslims are peace loving but they don’t shout from the rooftops nor do they hold mass demonsttrations against violence committed by terrorists”

            Let’s count the “Clean-shaven white men” that shows up for the demo to protest this obvious terrorist-attack:
            https://twitter.com/benphillips76/status/876674478763331585

          • Havelaar

            Oh come on Dear Viking, why do you not comment on this? I am not your enemy.

            You don’t think it is high time for liberals to defend their liberal values…hmmm?

            You don’t think it is deeply revealing that approximately only 300-500 islamic demonstrators showed up to protest against Islamic violence. It was supposed to be a big thing.

            More than half of them were non – Muslim Germans.

            An average Turkish wedding has more visitors.

            https://www.welt.de/debatte

            Der Aufstand der anständigen Muslime bleibt aus.

            But this does not bother you, does it now?

          • “why do you not comment on this?
            You don’t think it is high time for liberals to defend their liberal values”

            I did, but favourites reprised…
            …by disallowing other people who do not share your ‘liberal values’…smart!
            You treat liberalism like it should be like Theocracy, which is as illiberal one can be.

            Can you mention a demo anywhere in the world where the majority of people went out against violence in general or “Islamic violence” in particular?
            How should we interpret that – people in general, world-wide, loves violence?

          • “You don’t think it is deeply revealing that approximately only 300-500 islamic demonstrators showed up to protest against Islamic violence. It was supposed to be a big thing.””

            Let’s count the “Clean-shaven white men” that shows up for the demo to protest this obvious terrorist-attack:
            https://twitter.com/benphillips76/status/876674478763331585

        • Havelaar

          Fuckhead is partly right. Liberals like you MV are surrendering to the disgusting Muslim influence, damaging our societies. But just like me, the majority of liberals are waking up.

          • “Liberals like you MV are surrendering to the disgusting Muslim influence, damaging our societies”

            So, when you have excluded the about 20 Million Muslims inside the EU (less than 5%), which is the next group to cleanse out – The Jews?

            Have you ever met a Real Orthodox Jew or had them spit after your wife?
            “Being spat at remains part of life for Christians in Jerusalem
            Ultra-Orthodox young men curse and spit at Christian clergymen in the streets of Jerusalem’s Old City as a matter of routine”
            http://warincontext.org/2011/11/05/being-spat-on-remains-part-of-life-for-christians-in-jerusalem/

          • Havelaar

            “Ultra-Orthodox young men curse and spit at Christian clergymen in the streets of Jerusalem’s Old City as a matter of routine”
            Yep, Buuuut, they do not kill anyone.

          • “Buuuut, they do not kill anyone”

            Yes, then they refuse to perform their military duties and let others do the killing. Not a bad deal.
            What does that remind me about…

          • Havelaar

            “What does that remind me about…”

            Dunno, at least they do not harm my country.

          • “at least they do not harm my country”

            No, you do such a good work on that yourself – Srebrenica…but there was never any ‘muslim revenge’ for that, was it?

          • Havelaar

            Srebrenica?…Me? I never was there. So cheap.

          • “I never was there. So cheap.”

            You are the one speaking big words like “at least they do not harm my country”, so then you need to take responsibility for that country also. You obviously feel that organism is something worth to protect.

  • wolfi

    Instead of staying on topic some people here have been going on about “Islam being the worst religion” – well Christianity isn’t far off, here’s a reminder:

    Also in June 1967 ( just 50 years) ago the laws in some US states were
    abolished that made “inter-racial marriage” a crime by a Supreme Court
    decision:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia
    Last year a movie was made about this: Loving – which was the name of the couple btw …
    Mr. and Mrs. Loving spent some time in prison in Virginia although their marriage had been legal in Washington DC and then moved again out of the state Virginia to avoid prison and engaged Robert Kennedy and the ACLU. In response to them the local court wrote:

    Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and
    red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the
    interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such
    marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not
    intend for the races to mix.

    Not so long ago …

    PS:
    And I’m sure that some of those oh so Christian ‘Muricans and Hungarians and … would like those laws back …
    PPS:
    The laws that made homosexual activities a crime were in force even for a longer time in many “Christian” countries!
    And I don’t have to remind you what ugly stuff some of the commenters here wrote about that topic (and the groupies applauded or at least kept silent) …

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